3. Manchester City Council - Code 12 - Parked in a "Permit Parking Zone" but sign blocked and not clear
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Manchester City Council - Code 12 - Parked in a "Permit Parking Zone" but sign blocked and not clear
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Hi,

I would appreciate if someone could assist and provide advise on next steps, including @cp8759.

I have received a penalty charge notice (PCN) from Manchester City Council for a parking contravention on Banff Street, Manchester (M14 5TA) on Wednesday 16/10. Image of the PCN has been shown via the link below.

I have the following issues with the PCN:

1. The Permit Parking Sign was not clear
2. The Permit Parking Sign was on on one side of the street only
3. The Permit Parking Sign was not at the beginning of the street but further back about 10/15 metres
4. The Permit Parking Sign did not have a clear line of sight - for any driver turning into the street
5. The Permit Parking Sign was blocked by a lorry and a cage
6. The Permit Parking Sign did not have any lighting to make it clear and visible on a dull day
7. The road did not have any designated parking markings on the ground

I have attached a number of images (may have to refresh the link a few times for the image to appear):
*1. PCN - https://imgur.com/a/pcn-xbJehyB



*2. View of the street showing the Permit Parking Zone sign blocked by lorry - https://imgur.com/a/view-of-entering-banff-street-manchester-m14-5ta-iuj5aJ4
*3. View of the Permit Parking Zone sign being further aback on Banff Street and not at the entrance - https://imgur.com/a/view-of-permit-parking-zone-sign-being-further-aback-on-banff-street-manchester-m14-5ta-not-entrance-IgIMx8r
*4. Lack of designated parking markings on the road - https://imgur.com/a/lack-of-parking-markings-on-banff-street-manchester-m14-5ta-v5gfvao


I do have additional images if these are required, i can post these also.


**
For info: Contravention 12 relates to:

Parked in a residents or shared use parking place or zone without clearly displaying either a permit or voucher or Pay Display ticket issued for that place - higher level - £70

https://www.manchester.gov.uk/info/471/tickets_and_fines/3464/parking_contravention_codes_and_charges
**

Also, i have tagged in @cp8759 but not sure if i've done this right - apologies if i haven't. Any idea how i need to do this if i've got this wrong? Thanks in advance.

Regards,
Irfan.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2024, 10:06:55 pm by cp8759 »
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Re: Manchester City Council - Code 12 - Parked in a "Permit Parking Zone" but sign blocked and not clear
« Reply #1 on: »
What is the car VRM.

Or post the council's pics yourself.

It's Banff Road not Street.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/LnB5FiABg8ui1Zux9
« Last Edit: October 20, 2024, 08:17:04 pm by cp8759 »
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Re: Manchester City Council - Code 12 - Parked in a "Permit Parking Zone" but sign blocked and not clear
« Reply #2 on: »
@iffy_jiffy as per the guidance, please give us the number plate. Hiding it just makes it harder for us to help you.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Manchester City Council - Code 12 - Parked in a "Permit Parking Zone" but sign blocked and not clear
« Reply #3 on: »
Apologies. Car number plate is DV09 OEK.

Thanks @stamfordman + @cp8759.
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Re: Manchester City Council - Code 12 - Parked in a "Permit Parking Zone" but sign blocked and not clear
« Reply #4 on: »
Bingo - you can see that truck in the CEO's pic.

I can't see any repeater sign in this short street, only entry signs at each end.

The CEO did not include a pic of the sign you passed, only your car.



Your pic:

« Last Edit: October 20, 2024, 09:18:41 pm by stamfordman »
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Re: Manchester City Council - Code 12 - Parked in a "Permit Parking Zone" but sign blocked and not clear
« Reply #5 on: »
According to Manchester’s website. They don’t issue paper resident permits for this zone which must mean they issue digital virtual permits. In which case the code 12 contravention description they used is wrong since you cannot display a digital or virtual resident permit. The correct code 12 description is laid out in the statutory guidance issue by the Govt and it is “Parked in a residents’ or shared use parking place or zone without a valid virtual permit or clearly displaying a valid physical permit or voucher or pay and display ticket issued for that place where required, or without payment of the parking charge” but they failed to use it. Your failure is parking without a valid virtual permit but they’ve not accused you of that.

Even if they had, the current legislation does not make failing to park without a valid virtual permit a higher level parking contravention. For some reason the legislation has not taken technology into account and is still restricted to the non display of a permit. See 2(2)(b). This means the PCN should be £50 not £70.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2024, 09:46:48 pm by Phantomcrusader »
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Re: Manchester City Council - Code 12 - Parked in a "Permit Parking Zone" but sign blocked and not clear
« Reply #6 on: »
Correct @stamfordman. There were no signs in the street, only 1 single sign on a post at each end if the street.

Are there meant to be signs for permit parking only on the street also?

See picture of the other side ive just uplpaded - https://imgur.com/a/banff-road-manchester-m14-5ta-s8Db9Zk


Thank you.
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Re: Manchester City Council - Code 12 - Parked in a "Permit Parking Zone" but sign blocked and not clear
« Reply #7 on: »
@Phantomcrusader does this mean that the ticket they've issued is incorrect?

Thanks,
Irfan.
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Re: Manchester City Council - Code 12 - Parked in a "Permit Parking Zone" but sign blocked and not clear
« Reply #8 on: »
@iffy_jiffy here's a draft representation:

Dear Manchester City Council,

I challenge liability on the ground that the alleged contravention did not occur, I have viewed the photos taken by the CEO and they do not show any contravention whatsoever.

Yours faithfully,


Submit this online at https://manchester.tarantoportal.com/ and make sure to take a screenshot of the confirmation page.

Don't bring in the excess penalty at this stage, there's no reason to admit there was any parking place there at all (let them do the leg work for you).

The traffic order is The City of Manchester (Rusholme and Moss Side Area) (Prohibition and Restriction of Waiting, Limited Waiting Parking Places and Residents Parking, Loading Bays and Amendment) Order 2023
« Last Edit: October 20, 2024, 10:12:29 pm by cp8759 »
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Manchester City Council - Code 12 - Parked in a "Permit Parking Zone" but sign blocked and not clear
« Reply #9 on: »
Hi @cp8759,

I'll submit as per the draft and take a snippet of the confirmation.   

Much appreciated for all the help.

Regards,
Irfan.
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Re: Manchester City Council - Code 12 - Parked in a "Permit Parking Zone" but sign blocked and not clear
« Reply #10 on: »
There are only four pics.

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Re: Manchester City Council - Code 12 - Parked in a "Permit Parking Zone" but sign blocked and not clear
« Reply #11 on: »
Quote from: iffy_jiffy on October 20, 2024, 09:56:40 pm
@Phantomcrusader does this mean that the ticket they've issued is incorrect?

Thanks,
Irfan.
I think so but for now, keep it simple and follow what CP has suggested. My contribition can be used later on if needed.
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Re: Manchester City Council - Code 12 - Parked in a "Permit Parking Zone" but sign blocked and not clear
« Reply #12 on: »
Hi @cp8759, i've submitted this and taken a copy of the confirmation.

I'll update as soon as i get a reply.

Thanks all,
Irfan.
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Re: Manchester City Council - Code 12 - Parked in a "Permit Parking Zone" but sign blocked and not clear
« Reply #13 on: »
C'est la vie.

 There is no reason IMO why the OP shouldn't make straightforward reps on the grounds of 'penalty exceeded....circumstances of the case'. I doubt they* really want to prolong this matter any more than absolutely necessary.

OP, your defence is clear:
A lorry was parked where NOT permitted(there's a waiting and loading prohibition in place...for the very good reason that this prevents traffic having to move to the centre of the carriageway when making the turn AND gives visibility to the single sign conveying the restriction).

There aren't any other signs visible to a driver once they are within the restricted area.

It's not the council's fault that the sign was obstructed, but neither was it the driver's and no liability falls to them because they didn't see the sign.

OP, your proof that the lorry was in situ when the contravention occurred is the CEO's photos which are apparently bolstered by your own**.

GSV shows clearly that the first 30m of this road has been a problem for the council for many years because despite clear DYL and no loading at any time kerb markings (and in apparent desperation additional cones at times)vehicles still park and obscure the single sign.

OP, I cannot imagine why, given the above, you would not want to put your substantive case to the authority at the earliest opportunity.

*- who is the registered keeper?

**- whose photo of the rear of the lorry, yours? Given the time the PCN was issued, could you estimate when you parked?
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Re: Manchester City Council - Code 12 - Parked in a "Permit Parking Zone" but sign blocked and not clear
« Reply #14 on: »
I agree HCA - after all the OP figured out what was what and it could well have been cancelled at first stage.

At least the car looks way too old to be leased.
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