3. London Borough of Redbridge. PCN entering pedestrian zone. Sydney Road. Barkingside.
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London Borough of Redbridge. PCN entering pedestrian zone. Sydney Road. Barkingside.
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Just today I received a PCN in post for entering a pedestrian zone in Sydney Road Barkingside. Completely flummoxed me as the signage is quite high up and I had been parked right alongside the said road and the signs and was more focused on the heavy traffic and pedestrians crossing etc when I turned into Sydney Rd from the High St🤦🏻

I've read a post on here on same issue and location, that was successfully appealed by poster shah123. Other appeals have been successful apparently too. shah123 appeal was a success noted only last week on here. But it seemed to hinge on the signage.
It looks like the blue sign that was visible when shah123 received his PCN back in Feb has been altered. It previously read: 'School Streets Restricted Access Term Time Only'...Sign now reads a truncated version: 'School Streets Restricted Access'. I'm presuming LB Redbridge have made the alteration in the light of the above noted successful appeals.
So I wonder if there is any longer a realistic chance of getting this overturned? Thankyou.

https://imgpile.com/p/EjHE9Fl

https://imgpile.com/p/gOSqEns
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Re: London Borough of Redbridge. PCN entering pedestrian zone. Sydney Road. Barkingside.
« Reply #1 on: »
The absolutely absurd height of these signs must surely make them questionable, but the only way you'll find out is to take them to London Tribunals, pint out they are way outside a motorists normal view. Councils really shouldn't be allowed to get away with stuff like this, but they do, because most people just cough-up to get the discount.

I believe there are recommendations on sign height in the manual for road signs, but it's an awfully big document to trawl through.
The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016
This Instrument consolidates, with substantial amendments, the Zebra, Pelican and Puffin Pedestrian Crossings Regulations and General Directions 1997, the Traffic Signs (Temporary Obstructions) Reg...
legislation.gov.uk
« Last Edit: November 15, 2025, 08:38:37 pm by Incandescent »
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Re: London Borough of Redbridge. PCN entering pedestrian zone. Sydney Road. Barkingside.
« Reply #2 on: »
I see they have changed the blue plate.  However, look at the first link in my profile as I say that the PCN is invalid due to missing information.
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@Incandescent!

I AM ABLE TO TAKE ON MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. I HATE RETIREMENT.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
Re: London Borough of Redbridge. PCN entering pedestrian zone. Sydney Road. Barkingside.
« Reply #3 on: »
Quote from: Incandescent on November 15, 2025, 07:38:07 pm
The absolutely absurd height of these signs must surely make them questionable, but the only way you'll find out is to take them to London Tribunals, pint out they are way outside a motorists normal view. Councils really shouldn't be allowed to get away with stuff like this, but they do, because most people just cough-up to get the discount.

I believe there are recommendations on sign height in the manual for road signs, but it's an awfully big document to trawl through.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/9/made

I had a quick look and like you say its a big document! I will try and nail down the pertinent information later on today when I have a bit more time. Thanks
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Re: London Borough of Redbridge. PCN entering pedestrian zone. Sydney Road. Barkingside.
« Reply #4 on: »
Have you read and digested my post yet?
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@Incandescent!

I AM ABLE TO TAKE ON MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. I HATE RETIREMENT.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
Re: London Borough of Redbridge. PCN entering pedestrian zone. Sydney Road. Barkingside.
« Reply #5 on: »
Quote from: Hippocrates on November 15, 2025, 08:02:07 pm
I see they have changed the blue plate.  However, look at the first link in my profile as I say that the PCN is invalid due to missing information.
Thanks for the response. I will read your link a second time but have to admit my own knowledge of English grammar isn't up to scratch! I think you're basically suggesting their own text is confusing or contradictory? For clarity I'm just including here the reverse side of the PCN I didn't post earlier along with the photos and video that LBof Redbridge have on their record of the incident. Is there any precedent (has it been tested?) for this particular defence?

https://imgpile.com/p/WlgnK3c
« Last Edit: November 16, 2025, 05:09:34 pm by Paulc156 »
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Re: London Borough of Redbridge. PCN entering pedestrian zone. Sydney Road. Barkingside.
« Reply #6 on: »
I will draft later.
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@Incandescent!

I AM ABLE TO TAKE ON MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. I HATE RETIREMENT.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
Re: London Borough of Redbridge. PCN entering pedestrian zone. Sydney Road. Barkingside.
« Reply #7 on: »
Quote from: Hippocrates on November 16, 2025, 05:28:15 pm
I will draft later.
Hi.Ive read a bit more around here with particular emphasis on the argument made by Hippocrates on the PCN 'missing information' grounds for appeal.
I'll admit to finding it all a bit heavy going but I have found two separate and recent tribunal decisions where PCNs were cancelled seemingly on these grounds,(missing or  confusing information on PCN). I'll include links to those 2 tribunal judgements below.

The confusion is that whilst both appeals were successful the reasons given by each tribunal were quite different!

I will obviously have to decide in next couple of days (within the 14 day period as per PCN) whether to pay the reduced charge or appeal but will beed some help in drafting the appeal to the L.B.of Redbridge in the first instance and then assuming rejection, to the tribunal.
Do I simply lift the argument from the link you have provided?

Any help is much appreciated.

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Re: London Borough of Redbridge. PCN entering pedestrian zone. Sydney Road. Barkingside.
« Reply #8 on: »
I acted in both cases.
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@Incandescent!

I AM ABLE TO TAKE ON MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. I HATE RETIREMENT.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
Re: London Borough of Redbridge. PCN entering pedestrian zone. Sydney Road. Barkingside.
« Reply #9 on: »
Quote from: Hippocrates on November 21, 2025, 01:25:14 pm
I acted in both cases.
I thought that it might be yourself. I am inclined to appeal but I'm wondering about 2 things.
1. For the initial LBof Redbridge appeal do I simply lift the argument you made on the link regards missing information/conjunctive/ subjunctive etc?
2. Assuming Redbridge reject it would you be willing to help me with the tribunal itself... where I'm assuming a personally delivered argument would likely get more traction than a written one? Or do you think it makes no difference?
Thanks for the links provided on here they have been very enlightening.

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Re: London Borough of Redbridge. PCN entering pedestrian zone. Sydney Road. Barkingside.
« Reply #10 on: »
Yes to both. Always personal.
Logged
@Incandescent!

I AM ABLE TO TAKE ON MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. I HATE RETIREMENT.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
Re: London Borough of Redbridge. PCN entering pedestrian zone. Sydney Road. Barkingside.
« Reply #11 on: »
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Re: London Borough of Redbridge. PCN entering pedestrian zone. Sydney Road. Barkingside.
« Reply #12 on: »
Representations made online today. As suggested, I used Hippocrates 'missing information' argument. I await the inevetible rejection by Rebridge.
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Re: London Borough of Redbridge. PCN entering pedestrian zone. Sydney Road. Barkingside.
« Reply #13 on: »
So do I.
Logged
@Incandescent!

I AM ABLE TO TAKE ON MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. I HATE RETIREMENT.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
Re: London Borough of Redbridge. PCN entering pedestrian zone. Sydney Road. Barkingside.
« Reply #14 on: »
Quote from: Paulc156 on November 27, 2025, 02:08:19 pm
Representations made online today. As suggested, I used Hippocrates 'missing information' argument. I await the inevetible rejection by Rebridge.
Keep us posted.
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