3. Lewisham Failing to comply with a restriction (School Street)
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Lewisham Failing to comply with a restriction (School Street)
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Originally posted this on pepipoo so copy and pasting:

POST #1:

I turned down this street to avoid traffic and forgot there were new restrictions in place.

Car is a lease, the lease company forwarded my details as the hirer, and haven't confirmed whether a copy of the hire agreement was provided to the council.

The sign displaying the restriction is about 2 car lengths into the road, but there are no prior warnings on the road before it.

They don't seem to mention date of service in the letter either.

Any feedback is appreciated, I plan to appeal on the last 2 points. Thanks

https://imgur.com/a/npakPrz

POST #2:

Due to the forum going down, I went ahead and sent the appeal to Lewisham, saying I was not the owner of the vehicle and that there was no mention of date of service in the PCN.

They replied saying that they have the hire agreement (despite my leasing company telling me they couldn't release it due to data protection) and then ignored the second point by mentioning the discount period.

Picture of their response is below.

Would I be correct in assuming that even if the lease company have sent the hire agreement (which Lewisham will provide in their evidence pack) then the point about the incorrect wording would still be a valid defence, along with their failure to consider?

Thanks.

https://imgur.com/a/ya1JtGY

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Re: Lewisham Failing to comply with a restriction (School Street)
« Reply #1 on: »
Please post up a copy of your representations, in the meantime I'll get hold of the traffic order.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Lewisham Failing to comply with a restriction (School Street)
« Reply #2 on: »
I did't save what I wrote to Lewisham. However it was pretty basic, along the lines of:

I am not nor have I ever been the owner of the vehicle in question. Furthermore the PCN is invalid as it states I have 28 days from the date of the letter to pay or appeal, when it should say 28 days from the date of service of this letter. For these reasons the PCN should be cancelled.

I opened a case with the adjudicators, saying evidence to follow. I was expecting to leave it until Lewisham posted their evidence (including a copy of my statement) but I've seen that the adjudicators now say they will take 7 days to consider whether to take the appeal further, which is different to before?
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Re: Lewisham Failing to comply with a restriction (School Street)
« Reply #3 on: »
Quote
but I've seen that the adjudicators now say they will take 7 days to consider whether to take the appeal further, which is different to before?

Where have you seen it? Letter? Email? Text?

Please post up copy of what you have seen.

Quote
I opened a case with the adjudicators, saying evidence to follow

When you registered the appeal with LT, did you opt for a personal/telephone hearing, or a decision on papers?
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Re: Lewisham Failing to comply with a restriction (School Street)
« Reply #4 on: »
It was from the website, I've attached a screenshot.  https://imgur.com/a/PSdNU6R

I requested a in person hearing.

Thanks
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Re: Lewisham Failing to comply with a restriction (School Street)
« Reply #5 on: »
Quote from: Iamnegan on June 26, 2023, 12:34:32 pm
It was from the website, I've attached a screenshot.  https://imgur.com/a/PSdNU6R

I requested a in person hearing.

Thanks
Once you have a hearing date, log onto the tribunal portal at https://londontribunals.org.uk/ under "Return to my appeal" and keep an eye out for the council evidence pack (they'll post you a hard copy but we don't want to rely on the post), check at least once a week and in the last 10 working days before the hearing, check every day.

Once the council evidence pack is there, let us know and also drop me a PM please.

Lastly please let us know the hearing date once you get it.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Lewisham Failing to comply with a restriction (School Street)
« Reply #6 on: »
Hearing date for 26th July, and Lewisham have uploaded evidence, including my original appeal which I've included below, along with the correspondence between Lewisham and Arval, naming me as the hirer, but no copy of the hire agreement/contract was included.


https://imgur.com/a/v9aU1jr

Thanks
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Re: Lewisham Failing to comply with a restriction (School Street)
« Reply #7 on: »
I've had a look at the evidence pack and while there is no slam-dunk, there are a couple of points worth pursuing and as the discount is gone you might as well carry on:

1) There is no copy of the lease agreement in evidence, while adjudicators are split on this point, some of the more senior adjudicators will accept, and
2) While your representations were misconceived (the law says the opposite of what you said), arguably the authority has not understood or considered the point.

I can represent you at the tribunal if you'd like.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Lewisham Failing to comply with a restriction (School Street)
« Reply #8 on: »
Logged
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Lewisham Failing to comply with a restriction (School Street)
« Reply #9 on: »
Logged
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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