Author Topic: Lewisham council - Can I appeal a PCN at the Charge Certificate Stage  (Read 1171 times)

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I received a Lewisham Council PCN on 10 October 2024 and made an online Representation on 12 October for which received an email confirmation. I have not received further correspondence from Lewisham Council Parking Services regarding my representation either by email or by post. Today (28 November 2024) I received a Charge Certificate asking me to pay £195 with no right to appeal.

I'm happy to pay the original amount of £65 if they have supplied reasons for the rejection of my representation. But this seems like outright denial of my rights.

Apparently, checking online, it says they responded to my Representation on 21 October! I'm diligent about my letters and checking emails - so I'm really confused here. Any guidance would be greatly appreciated.

PCN details:

ZY10454586
GJ71 VNC
Date of contravention: 23/09/24

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Re: Lewisham council - Can I appeal a PCN at the Charge Certificate Stage
« Reply #1 on: »
You cannot can only do one of two things on receipt of a Charge Certificate (CC), pay it, or ignore it and wait for the next statutory document to be sent to you, the Order for Recovery (OfR). At the OfR stage, you can submit either a Witness Statement, or a Statutory Declaration. Which one depends on what legislation the PCN was served under. For London, parking PCNs will be under the Traffic Management Act 2004, so require a Witness Statement, and moving traffic offences will be under London-specific Acts like the London Local Authorities and Transport for London Act 2003, which require a Statutory Declaration.

Once the CC payment period expires the council can register the debt at the Traffic Enforcement Centre. This adds £10 to the CC amount. From this point you need to be proactive and check for registration of the debt every week. You can do this by checking the amount owing on the Lewisham webpages. Once the amount goes up by £10, the debt is registered and the OfR should be on its way, and this will include the SD form.  However, as you have missed getting the letter rejecting your reps, it is probably a better idea to download the form from the TEC website, and submit it without having seen the OfR document. The form to use is the PE3.  Do NOT fill it in without coming on here to make sure you have filled it in correctly. The slightest error will result in it being rejected. Provided you submit it within the time allowed, it will be automatically accepted, and the OfR and CC cancelled.

Having now looked at the PCN and video, the PCN is for passing a 'Flying Motorbike" sign on Dacre Park at the Lee High Road end. The video does indeed show you turning into Dacre Park, but you are not shown as passing a restriction sign as above. A look at GSV of June 2024 also shows that the actual signs that bar motor vehicles are not at the entrance to Dacre Park but some yards in. So in my view, the video shows no contravention whatsoever. The signs are located just under 27 metres from Lee High Road. Of course the signs may have been moved closer to Lee High Road since June 2024, only you can tell us if this is the case, but in my view they have not proved the contravention.

So when you do manage to get the matter reverted back to the PCN stage, you could argue at London Tribunals that the video evidence shows no contravention.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2024, 10:13:07 am by Incandescent »

Re: Lewisham council - Can I appeal a PCN at the Charge Certificate Stage
« Reply #2 on: »
This from their site:

Ticket ReferenceZY10454586
Your PCN is at Charge Certificate stage. PCN process information
Vehicle Registration NumberGJ71VNC
ColourBLACK
MakeTESLA
Contravention53j - Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone (camera enforcement)
LocationDacre Park junction with Lee High Road
First seen atMon, 23 Sep 2024 15:20
Issued atMon, 23 Sep 2024 15:20
Served byPost
You are still able to pay £195.00 now
You have already made representations for this PCN and we replied on Mon, 21 Oct 2024. You cannot make representations twice
This PCN is past the stage at which you can challenge it or make representations


Again, misleading information. As above advice, wait for the necessary forms.
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

Re: Lewisham council - Can I appeal a PCN at the Charge Certificate Stage
« Reply #3 on: »
IMO, Incandescent has given you the procedure which would lead to adjudication because this is the only outcome.(strictly speaking a reference by the authority to the adjudicator for directions)

But IMO, there's something which sits above this, namely proportionality and making best use of the tribunal's (and your) time and resources. This case also shines a light on the importance of the adjudicator being able to register appeals late.

In short OP, IMO ask the authority for a copy of the NOR and see what response you get. Remember, armed with this YOU could:

ask the authority if you could pay the discount,
apply to have an appeal registered if posters here think you have procedural grounds for doing so(from what's been posted the contravention looks to have been established) or
simply wait for the Order for Recovery, submit a SD, get the CC and OfR revoked and all the tedium of procedure.

*- there are TWO separate processes here. YOU could apply to have an appeal registered once you have received the NoR giving the adjudicator your clear reasons for lateness i.e. didn't get the original but conscious of the tribunal's overriding objectives are applying to have an appeal registered late (as opposed to OfR, TEC, revocation and an obligation on the authority to do the same i.e. register an appeal);
Or simply go through the procedural steps and wait for the authority to apply to register an appeal(actually 'refer the matter to the adjudicator for their directions').

Re: Lewisham council - Can I appeal a PCN at the Charge Certificate Stage
« Reply #4 on: »
I appreciate all the advice! This is such an important forum that helps ordinary folks trying to uphold their rights.

Re: Lewisham council - Can I appeal a PCN at the Charge Certificate Stage
« Reply #5 on: »
Their e mail address is not fit for purpose at present. Personally, I would go with the process. Apart from this, a Judicial Review application would be in order regarding their website threats and misinformation.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2024, 09:57:44 am by Hippocrates »
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r