Author Topic: Lewisham, code 25 (loading), Wearside Road  (Read 1472 times)

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Re: Lewisham, code 25 (loading), Wearside Road
« Reply #15 on: »
Yup

Re: Lewisham, code 25 (loading), Wearside Road
« Reply #16 on: »
So the Notice to Owner arrived on 17th Oct.  Here is is:


What should I do now???

Re: Lewisham, code 25 (loading), Wearside Road
« Reply #17 on: »
Should I do something now or should I wait for this 'charge certificate'?

Re: Lewisham, code 25 (loading), Wearside Road
« Reply #18 on: »
You must make representations to the NTO or pay. If you do nothing you'll be chucking a lot of money away.

Re: Lewisham, code 25 (loading), Wearside Road
« Reply #19 on: »
You must make representations to the NTO or pay. If you do nothing you'll be chucking a lot of money away.
+1

Re: Lewisham, code 25 (loading), Wearside Road
« Reply #20 on: »
Ok so I have drafted something.  Would the following be ok?  Please feel free to amend!
Also which statutory grounds (listed on the NTO) should I select?

Dear Sir or Madam, On 10th September I bought a rug from a carpet shop in Lewisham.  Because the rug was large & heavy when rolled up, I went & got the car and parked in the loading bay in front.  I went in to get it and one of the carpet shop guys helped me carry it out & load it into my car.  However by the time we got to the car with it, I had a ticket. Contravention 25 “Parked in a loading place during restricted hours without loading”
I appealed the PCN that evening.  In my appeal, I explained I was loading.  The carpet shop wrote me a note to confirm that I was indeed collecting a rug, which I attached.  The manager gave her name and confirmed that Lewisham Council can call her at the carpet shop to confirm.  I therefore wrote in my appeal that Lewisham Council are welcome to call the carpet shop to confirm that I was loading, and I attached one of their business cards.

However I have received a rejection, which said:
“I have noted your comments and proof. I can advise that the PCN was issued as the vehicle was seen parked in a loading bay without active loading being seen.”
Given that I supplied evidence from the carpet shop – and even suggested that you might call the carpet shop for confirmation that I was loading – I believe that this amounts to failure to consider evidence.

Furthermore I believe there was procedural impropriety in the process because on 14th October Lewisham Council threatened to serve a charge certificate, before I had even received a Notice to Owner.  (I attach screenshots from Lewisham Council’s website on 14th October which stated, in a red box “The amount outstanding on the Penalty Charge Notice will increase to £195 very soon. Please pay £65 now”)
On 16th October, the message in this red box changed to “The amount outstanding on the Penalty Charge Notice will increase to £195 very soon. Please pay £130 now”
The next day, on 17th October, that red box was yellow instead of red and stated “The amount outstanding on the Penalty Charge Notice will increase to £195 on Wed 20th Nov 2024. Please pay £130 now”
This red box flagging, on the official website, that the fine was going to be increased to £195 “very soon” was inaccurate because in reality a penalty can only be increased by 50% upon the issuing of a Notice to Owner. It gave me a false sense of panic and on reflection I feel it was an abuse of statutory process.

I also note that, on each screenshot there is a blue box which states “You have already challenged this PCN and we replied on Wed 18 Sep 2024.  You cannot challenge twice”  I have two things to say about this.
First I feel that saying “you cannot challenge twice” is misleading because in actual fact there *is* the opportunity to challenge again - after receiving a Notice to Owner.  This is particularly egregious when coupled with threats to increase the fine to £195 “very soon” before any Notice to Owner has even been received.
Secondly, in the blue box Lewisham states that they replied on Wed 18 Sep 2024.  This is incorrect.  I did not receive a reply until 27th September 2024.  Indeed Lewisham’s own letter is dated 27/09/24.

Finally, quite apart from the fact that I was loading, this technically is not a ‘loading bay’ – you cannot have a yellow line within a 24/7 so-called loading bay.




Re: Lewisham, code 25 (loading), Wearside Road
« Reply #21 on: »
Looks OK, and bear in mind they will reject anything you say anyway, so be prepared to take them to London Tribunals. The penalty does not increase and there are no additional charges.

Re: Lewisham, code 25 (loading), Wearside Road
« Reply #22 on: »
This is absurd. I won a case re this nonsense re timings very recently for chaseman.
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

Re: Lewisham, code 25 (loading), Wearside Road
« Reply #23 on: »
Absurd was the very word used by the court, but in a slightly different context.

IMO, you should make more of their statement: 

I have noted your comments and proof. I can advise that the PCN was issued as the vehicle was seen parked in a loading bay without active loading being seen.


The courts have already determined that loading/unloading and delivering/collecting fall within the same umbrella term 'loading' and may in part take place away from the vehicle. Indeed, they commented on the absurdity of interpretations such as that applied by your authority because unloading is simply the preliminary activity to delivering and vice-versa i.e. collecting preliminary to loading. Being away from the vehicle is permitted and the authority should apply the correct frame of reference. If officers are in doubt then they should take advice from their legal officers.

Re: Lewisham, code 25 (loading), Wearside Road
« Reply #24 on: »
Am going to submit it tonight, before it goes up tomorrow - Which statutory grounds (listed on the NTO) should I select?

Re: Lewisham, code 25 (loading), Wearside Road
« Reply #25 on: »
What?

Date of NTO 17 Oct.

Deemed date of service 21 Oct.

Last day of 28-day period 17 Nov.

You're late already.

Re: Lewisham, code 25 (loading), Wearside Road
« Reply #26 on: »
Nooo!  It says the fine is going up on 20th Nov so I thought that was my deadline.  Shall I still submit? (and if so using which grounds)

Re: Lewisham, code 25 (loading), Wearside Road
« Reply #27 on: »
Their power is to disregard late reps, NOTHING to do with payment.

Get something in ASP. You don't have time for refinement.

Re: Lewisham, code 25 (loading), Wearside Road
« Reply #28 on: »
So it looks like they didn'yt notice that I was 3 days late.  And I have now received a Notice of Rejection of Representations - rejected not for being 3 days late but because they still insist I was not loading when I was!  They are still ignoring the evidence: "Your vehicle was observed for 5 minutes with no loading or unloading observed"
I attach the NOR.  I'd like to appeal to adjudicator.
Do I simply repeat what I said in my original appeal or should I add more?


Re: Lewisham, code 25 (loading), Wearside Road
« Reply #29 on: »
Maybe try to emphasise more strongly the council's complete lack of knowledge of the activities encompassed within the loading exemption. Activities which have been confirmed as valid at adjudications going back decades to the original 1991 legislation.