3. LB Redbridge 53j - Cleveland Rd, Ilford IG1 Failing to comply with restriction on vehicles entering pedest zone (camera)
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Re: LB Redbridge 53j - Cleveland Rd, Ilford IG1 Failing to comply with restriction on vehicles entering pedest zone (cam
« Reply #30 on: »
Quote from: Hippocrates on December 18, 2024, 09:50:01 am
Send it and do not wait. I would make a formal complaint too.

Ok thanks, last night I have sent the response similar to your draft and also the representations with relevant photos, screenshots.

Sorry for my lack of knowledge here how would I make a formal complaint?


Here is my email regarding premature issuing of Charge Certificate sent to LB Redbridge yesterday:
Dear LB Redbridge:

I acknowledge receipt of the Charge Certificate pertaining to PCN ..... VRM ......

The date of the PCN is November 14th 2024.  Therefore, the deemed date of service is November 18th. Clearly, you have prematurely issued a Charge Certificate. It follows that the earliest you may serve such a document is 15th December. I also note that this is par for the course as you have recently lost a case on the same issue.

Therefore, please cancel the Charge Certificate so that I may make formal representations to which I am entitled according to the statutory process.

This is not a matter for discretion - rather a matter of statutory compliance.

Yours,


Here is their response received this morning:
Parking and Traffic Enforcement
8:50 AM (38 minutes ago)
to me

Good Morning,

 

Thank you for your email.

 

Please can you confirm if the Penalty Charge Notice was received?

 

Regards,

 

Shalinaaz Aziz

 

Business Administrator

Parking Management

 

London Borough of Redbridge

 

Web: www.redbridge.gov.uk

Twitter: @RedbridgeLive

Facebook: @RedbridgeCouncilOfficial

Instagram: @redbridgecouncil

TikTok: @redbridgecouncil



LONDON BOROUGH OF REDBRIDGE DISCLAIMER

This email contains proprietary confidential information some or all of which may be legally privileged and/or subject to the provisions of privacy legislation. It is intended solely for the addressee.

If you are not the intended recipient, an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail; you must not use, disclose, copy, print or disseminate the information contained within this e-mail.

Please notify the author immediately by replying to this email. Any views expressed in this email are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states these to be the views of the London Borough of Redbridge.

This email has been scanned for all viruses and all reasonable precautions have been taken to ensure that no viruses are present.

The London Borough of Redbridge cannot accept responsibility for any loss or damage arising from the use of this email or attachments.


I have not replied yet. I would be grateful for assistance on next steps.

I also sent in representations to the same email address. I wasnt sure if I was supposed to send it then or not but did so anyway. Please see the email below and their response. Again I would be grateful on guidance here.
arking and Traffic Enforcement
8:51 AM (1 hour ago)
to me

Good Morning,

 

Thank you for your email.

 

Please can you confirm if the Penalty Charge Notice was received?

 

Regards,

 

Shalinaaz Aziz

 

Business Administrator

Parking Management

 

London Borough of Redbridge

 

Web: www.redbridge.gov.uk

Twitter: @RedbridgeLive

Facebook: @RedbridgeCouncilOfficial

Instagram: @redbridgecouncil

TikTok: @redbridgecouncil

 

From:
Sent: 17 December 2024 23:06
To: Parking and Traffic Enforcement <parkingandtrafficenforcement@redbridge.gov.uk>; Parking and Traffic Enforcement <highways.parkingappeals@redbridge.gov.uk>; Parking and Traffic Enforcement <highways.parkingmanagement@redbridge.gov.uk>
Subject: Representations AF3....... (tried to submit this via website on 15th Dec)


Dear Sir Madam,

I am writing to formally challenge the Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) number AF...... issued to myself for allegedly failing to comply with traffic restrictions on Cleveland Rd, Ilford IG1. I believe that this charge has been unfairly issued and wish to present my case for your consideration.

Firstly the sign indicating the restriction against traffic is not of the 'hinged' type that should be only visible during School Term Time. This type of sign has not received authorisation as suitable signage to traffic outside of the School zone, from the Department of Transport, rending the PCN here null and void.

Secondly when attempting to make an online representation against this PCN, the website fetters discretion with regards to the grounds allowed. The LB Redbridge website indicates which grounds will not be considered here, and a public body should not adopt such a rigid policy that prevents it from exercising discretion in individual cases. I attach screenshots from the LB Redbridge website.

Finally the online representation page fetters to only one ground only for representation. Again this is unfair and does not allow for proper consideration of the possible grounds for a PCN to be contested. I also attach screenshots from the LB Redbridge website.

I look forward to hearing from you at your earliest convenience.

Kind regards,



Hope its clear and sorry for long post. Can break it down if helps. As always any assistance gratefully received
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Re: LB Redbridge 53j - Cleveland Rd, Ilford IG1 Failing to comply with restriction on vehicles entering pedest zone (cam
« Reply #31 on: »
Is too much information in this post - shall I break it down into chunks?
Thank you for help on how to proceed here.


Quote from: WaltWhite on December 18, 2024, 10:02:14 am
Quote from: Hippocrates on December 18, 2024, 09:50:01 am
Send it and do not wait. I would make a formal complaint too.

Ok thanks, last night I have sent the response similar to your draft and also the representations with relevant photos, screenshots.

Sorry for my lack of knowledge here how would I make a formal complaint?


Here is my email regarding premature issuing of Charge Certificate sent to LB Redbridge yesterday:
Dear LB Redbridge:

I acknowledge receipt of the Charge Certificate pertaining to PCN ..... VRM ......

The date of the PCN is November 14th 2024.  Therefore, the deemed date of service is November 18th. Clearly, you have prematurely issued a Charge Certificate. It follows that the earliest you may serve such a document is 15th December. I also note that this is par for the course as you have recently lost a case on the same issue.

Therefore, please cancel the Charge Certificate so that I may make formal representations to which I am entitled according to the statutory process.

This is not a matter for discretion - rather a matter of statutory compliance.

Yours,


Here is their response received this morning:
Parking and Traffic Enforcement
8:50 AM (38 minutes ago)
to me

Good Morning,

 

Thank you for your email.

 

Please can you confirm if the Penalty Charge Notice was received?

 

Regards,

 

Shalinaaz Aziz

 

Business Administrator

Parking Management

 

London Borough of Redbridge

 

Web: www.redbridge.gov.uk

Twitter: @RedbridgeLive

Facebook: @RedbridgeCouncilOfficial

Instagram: @redbridgecouncil

TikTok: @redbridgecouncil



LONDON BOROUGH OF REDBRIDGE DISCLAIMER

This email contains proprietary confidential information some or all of which may be legally privileged and/or subject to the provisions of privacy legislation. It is intended solely for the addressee.

If you are not the intended recipient, an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail; you must not use, disclose, copy, print or disseminate the information contained within this e-mail.

Please notify the author immediately by replying to this email. Any views expressed in this email are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states these to be the views of the London Borough of Redbridge.

This email has been scanned for all viruses and all reasonable precautions have been taken to ensure that no viruses are present.

The London Borough of Redbridge cannot accept responsibility for any loss or damage arising from the use of this email or attachments.


I have not replied yet. I would be grateful for assistance on next steps.

I also sent in representations to the same email address. I wasnt sure if I was supposed to send it then or not but did so anyway. Please see the email below and their response. Again I would be grateful on guidance here.
arking and Traffic Enforcement
8:51 AM (1 hour ago)
to me

Good Morning,

 

Thank you for your email.

 

Please can you confirm if the Penalty Charge Notice was received?

 

Regards,

 

Shalinaaz Aziz

 

Business Administrator

Parking Management

 

London Borough of Redbridge

 

Web: www.redbridge.gov.uk

Twitter: @RedbridgeLive

Facebook: @RedbridgeCouncilOfficial

Instagram: @redbridgecouncil

TikTok: @redbridgecouncil

 

From:
Sent: 17 December 2024 23:06
To: Parking and Traffic Enforcement <parkingandtrafficenforcement@redbridge.gov.uk>; Parking and Traffic Enforcement <highways.parkingappeals@redbridge.gov.uk>; Parking and Traffic Enforcement <highways.parkingmanagement@redbridge.gov.uk>
Subject: Representations AF3....... (tried to submit this via website on 15th Dec)


Dear Sir Madam,

I am writing to formally challenge the Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) number AF...... issued to myself for allegedly failing to comply with traffic restrictions on Cleveland Rd, Ilford IG1. I believe that this charge has been unfairly issued and wish to present my case for your consideration.

Firstly the sign indicating the restriction against traffic is not of the 'hinged' type that should be only visible during School Term Time. This type of sign has not received authorisation as suitable signage to traffic outside of the School zone, from the Department of Transport, rending the PCN here null and void.

Secondly when attempting to make an online representation against this PCN, the website fetters discretion with regards to the grounds allowed. The LB Redbridge website indicates which grounds will not be considered here, and a public body should not adopt such a rigid policy that prevents it from exercising discretion in individual cases. I attach screenshots from the LB Redbridge website.

Finally the online representation page fetters to only one ground only for representation. Again this is unfair and does not allow for proper consideration of the possible grounds for a PCN to be contested. I also attach screenshots from the LB Redbridge website.

I look forward to hearing from you at your earliest convenience.

Kind regards,



Hope its clear and sorry for long post. Can break it down if helps. As always any assistance gratefully received
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Re: LB Redbridge 53j - Cleveland Rd, Ilford IG1 Failing to comply with restriction on vehicles entering pedest zone (cam
« Reply #32 on: »
Can anyone help here please with next steps. I'm not sure what I am supposed to do and how to respond to this?
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Re: LB Redbridge 53j - Cleveland Rd, Ilford IG1 Failing to comply with restriction on vehicles entering pedest zone (cam
« Reply #33 on: »
So what have you been asked to do, (it's  not entirely clear to me, sorry) ?
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Re: LB Redbridge 53j - Cleveland Rd, Ilford IG1 Failing to comply with restriction on vehicles entering pedest zone (cam
« Reply #34 on: »
Quote from: Incandescent on December 23, 2024, 12:34:29 pm
So what have you been asked to do, (it's  not entirely clear to me, sorry) ?

Soryy was a long post previously maybe difficult to follow.

I went to put in representations but couldnt do so.
Forum members here believe LB Redbridge have prematurely issued the Charge Certificate before time was up. including @Hippocrates

I then emailed LB Redbridge stating this and that I have been prevented from putting in representations.
I then emailed them my representations anyway.
This was last week.
They have replied asking did I receive the PCN (see below for initial email and their response)

Dear LB Redbridge,

I acknowledge receipt of the Charge Certificate pertaining to PCN AF30026923 VRM CV61XUX

The date of the PCN is November 14th 2024.  Therefore, the deemed date of service is November 18th. Clearly, you have prematurely issued a Charge Certificate. It follows that the earliest you may serve such a document is 15th December. I also note that this is par for the course as you have recently lost a case on the same issue.

Therefore, please cancel the Charge Certificate so that I may make formal representations to which I am entitled according to the statutory process.

This is not a matter for discretion - rather a matter of statutory compliance.

Yours,
Daniel Cawley

Parking and Traffic Enforcement
Wed, Dec 18, 8:50 AM (5 days ago)
to me

Good Morning,

 

Thank you for your email.

 

Please can you confirm if the Penalty Charge Notice was received?

 

Regards,

 

 

I was wondering why they were asking this, and what and if I should respond?
Im also unsure as to what happens next, as to me it looks like I now need to pay £195??

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Re: LB Redbridge 53j - Cleveland Rd, Ilford IG1 Failing to comply with restriction on vehicles entering pedest zone (cam
« Reply #35 on: »
Why they are asking about recipt of the PCN, when it is a postal PCN and you have already submitted reps against it is beyond me. However we know the intellectual level of staff in these enforcement offices is not high.

So you need to email back that you received the postal PCN and submitted reps but received no response, and that the CC was the next document you received after the PCN.

Enclose copies of all to and fro messages
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Re: LB Redbridge 53j - Cleveland Rd, Ilford IG1 Failing to comply with restriction on vehicles entering pedest zone (cam
« Reply #36 on: »
Quote from: Incandescent on December 23, 2024, 05:32:22 pm
Why they are asking about recipt of the PCN, when it is a postal PCN and you have already submitted reps against it is beyond me. However we know the intellectual level of staff in these enforcement offices is not high.

So you need to email back that you received the postal PCN and submitted reps but received no response, and that the CC was the next document you received after the PCN.

Enclose copies of all to and fro messages

I didnt submit reps. I was advised to hold till last minute. I went to submit within the timeline that I was advised was ok, and the online website wouldnt allow me too.

Hence my email in prior post, and their reply.

I also at the same time of sending the email above, sent in reps to the same email address.
Hope that makes sense?
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Re: LB Redbridge 53j - Cleveland Rd, Ilford IG1 Failing to comply with restriction on vehicles entering pedest zone (cam
« Reply #37 on: »
Can anyone help here?
Or I just have to pay this?
14 days from charge certificate is 27th Dec
I dont want this to go to County Court?
Im not sure what to do - went on initial guidance from this site....
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Re: LB Redbridge 53j - Cleveland Rd, Ilford IG1 Failing to comply with restriction on vehicles entering pedest zone (cam
« Reply #38 on: »
DO NOT PAY THIS!

As stated by other posters, they have messed this up badly, if you follow the process then you'll have nothing to pay and a decent change of getting an apology and compensation for time wasted.

Others will be along to advise you on what to do to get this infront of someone who understands how badly they have messed up... but paying is definitely not the right move, you'd lose your chance to appeal as well as being out of pocket!
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Re: LB Redbridge 53j - Cleveland Rd, Ilford IG1 Failing to comply with restriction on vehicles entering pedest zone (cam
« Reply #39 on: »
Quote from: Grant Urismo on December 23, 2024, 11:02:27 pm
DO NOT PAY THIS!

As stated by other posters, they have messed this up badly, if you follow the process then you'll have nothing to pay and a decent change of getting an apology and compensation for time wasted.

Others will be along to advise you on what to do to get this infront of someone who understands how badly they have messed up... but paying is definitely not the right move, you'd lose your chance to appeal as well as being out of pocket!

I want to respond to the council request tomorrow regarding PCN. As they state on the charge certificate it can be registered with as a debt from 27th
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Re: LB Redbridge 53j - Cleveland Rd, Ilford IG1 Failing to comply with restriction on vehicles entering pedest zone (cam
« Reply #40 on: »
Dear Sir / Madam,

I haven't had a proper response to the below and it has been a week now.
What is going to happen about the premature issuing of the charge certificate?
I would like a response today?
I would also like to make a formal complaint, please can you outline this in your response.
I presume the office will be closed over the Christmas period so please can you get back to me urgently. The Charge Certificate should be cancelled.

Best wishes




From:
Sent: 17 December 2024 23:06
To: Parking and Traffic Enforcement <parkingandtrafficenforcement@redbridge.gov.uk>; Parking and Traffic Enforcement <highways.parkingappeals@redbridge.gov.uk>; Parking and Traffic Enforcement <highways.parkingmanagement@redbridge.gov.uk>
Subject: URGENT - Premature issuing of Charge Certificate

 

Dear LB Redbridge,

I acknowledge receipt of the Charge Certificate pertaining to PCN AF30026923 VRM CV61XUX

The date of the PCN is November 14th 2024.  Therefore, the deemed date of service is November 18th. Clearly, you have prematurely issued a Charge Certificate. It follows that the earliest you may serve such a document is 15th December. I also note that this is par for the course as you have recently lost a case on the same issue.

Therefore, please cancel the Charge Certificate so that I may make formal representations to which I am entitled according to the statutory process.

This is not a matter for discretion - rather a matter of statutory compliance.

Yours,


Latest emails to LB Redbridge...
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Re: LB Redbridge 53j - Cleveland Rd, Ilford IG1 Failing to comply with restriction on vehicles entering pedest zone (cam
« Reply #41 on: »
Email received today from LB Redbridge and my response




o parkingandtrafficenforcement


Hi S,

Thanks for your reply. I’m not sure of the relevance of your question? My previous email stated the date of service as the 18th November.
Can you explain why you need to know this.
The charge certificate has been issued prematurely.

Please get back to me today as the office will be closed over Xmas. I understand that with a Charge Certificate it will be registered as an unpaid debt which I do not want.

Best wishes


Sent from my iPhone

On 24 Dec 2024, at 12:27, Parking and Traffic Enforcement <parkingandtrafficenforcement@redbridge.gov.uk> wrote:




Daniel,

 

Please note we have ten working days to respond to emails.

 

Please can you confirm if the Penalty Charge Notice was received?

 

In order to make a complaint please visit our website via the following link https://www.redbridge.gov.uk/tell-us/tell-us-whats-wrong/

 

Regards,

 

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Re: LB Redbridge 53j - Cleveland Rd, Ilford IG1 Failing to comply with restriction on vehicles entering pedest zone (cam
« Reply #42 on: »
Formal complaint submitted:

    Dear Sir/Madam,

I have received a Charge Certificate pertaining to PCN AF30026923 VRM CV61XUX

The date of the PCN is November 14th 2024. Therefore, the deemed date of service is November 18th. Clearly, you have prematurely issued a Charge Certificate. It follows that the earliest you may serve such a document is 15th December.
I have asked for this to be cancelled so I can submit representations as I tried to before the 15th December. This has not happened.

I am entitled to make formal representations according to the statutory process.

This is not a matter for discretion - rather a matter of statutory compliance.

I am finding this process very stressful as I know understand this Charge (now at £195) will also now increase by £10 and be registered as a debt.

Yours,

What action would you like us to take?
    I would like you to cancel the Charge Certificate, so I can submit representations.
I believe due to the impact on my mental wellbeing that I should receive some monetary compensation.
I have a diagnosed mental health condition which is being exacerbated by what has happened here.
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Re: LB Redbridge 53j - Cleveland Rd, Ilford IG1 Failing to comply with restriction on vehicles entering pedest zone (cam
« Reply #43 on: »
It does look in this case that Redbridge are not following what they say on their own PCN, which is that if the penalty is not paid or reps received after 28 days from date of service a higher penalty may be payable.

There is a stupid anomaly in the LLA & TfL Act 2003 in that the penalty is due by 28 days from PCN date, but reps can be submitted 28 days from date of service, two days later. This anomaly has never been corrected due to our supine governments since that Act came in. It seems to me that the CC has been issued under the 28 days from date of PCN rather than 28 days from date of service. In addition, they would seem to have programmed their IT system to refuse all reps once a CC is sent out. So we end up with a complete Pot Mess !

The OP needs to not just email a complaint to the enforcement department, but via the formal complaint process that councils must have and support.
https://www.redbridge.gov.uk/tell-us/tell-us-whats-wrong/tell-us-what-we-did-wrong/
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Re: LB Redbridge 53j - Cleveland Rd, Ilford IG1 Failing to comply with restriction on vehicles entering pedest zone (cam
« Reply #44 on: »
IMO,
The CC was NOT served (the criterion is not 'issue', it is service) prematurely.

CC dated Fri. 13th Dec, therefore deemed served Tues. 17th.

PCN issued 14 Nov, deemed served Mon. 18th. Last day of 28-day period for payment was 11 Dec. But last day of reps period was 15 Dec.

As CC not even issued until 13th it could not be premature because you hadn't paid and hadn't made reps.

However, this is not the nub of the matter.

The authority are obliged to consider reps made in time.

But you didn't make reps in time.

At this stage you're really behind the 8-ball.

But you posted:
I didnt submit reps. I was advised to hold till last minute. I went to submit within the timeline that I was advised was ok, and the online website wouldnt allow me too.[/b]

And this is the issue IMO. They put themselves in jeopardy because they issued a CC before the end of the 28-day representations period AND you say you were prevented you from making reps before the end of this period. What a shambles - the drafting c**k-up referred to previously.

To put concisely:
28 days to pay beginning on date PCN issued;
28 days in which to make reps beginning on date of service;
This trigger-happy authority(again referred to by another poster) are in the s**t if reps are made after the end of the payment period and before the end of the reps period and they've issued a CC.
But they connive to save themselves by preventing you making reps after a CC has been issued.

Anyway, you've sent reps by email but whether these will be considered is anyone's guess because email is not a prescribed method(these are online and by post).

If they disregard your reps because they were made late and/or by email then IMO you'll need to follow the complaints route because a SD cannot be submitted because none of the grounds applies.   

 
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  3. LB Redbridge 53j - Cleveland Rd, Ilford IG1 Failing to comply with restriction on vehicles entering pedest zone (camera)