3. LB of Ealing Code 53J
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LB of Ealing Code 53J
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Following on from my challenge to a PCN, I
received a Notice of Rejection of formal Representations. I have 11 days to pay the £65 or to further challenge at appeal.
I attach their letter and Notice of Appeal and notes for Appeal.

Should I take to Appeal?

(Please let me know if attachments are not visible).There are 5 pics.

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Re: LB of Ealing Code 53J
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« Last Edit: April 21, 2024, 02:44:10 pm by Twasbrillig »
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Re: LB of Ealing Code 53J
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Anybody there?  :-\
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Re: LB of Ealing Code 53J
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Quote from: Twasbrillig on April 22, 2024, 05:46:13 pm
Anybody there?  :-\
People here have day jobs, y'know and may go on holiday ocasionally.

You've given us no narrative at all and it took some time for me to work out that you'd driven past a "Flying Motorbike" sign. I see advance warning sign, a No Right Turn sign with times, and a car passing a Flying Motorbike sign. You haven't posted your representations, so please do so, or tell us why you think the PCN should be cancelled.

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Re: LB of Ealing Code 53J
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I started my post on Pepipoo but since then the site has gone down, that's the reason why all the info isn't here.
My challenge was:

"I was only 2 minutes away from the end of the prohibited time. Is this not a 'de minimus' case?
Also I discovered that in another school street a few roads away, the time ends at 09.15 so if I'd been in that road at 09.18 it wouldn't have mattered. I wonder why it's 9.15 in one street and 9.20 in another in the same area?

I'm asking the council to exercise it's discretion and cancel the ticket. I am local but was unaware of the new restriction, had not seen any publicity about it. Unfortunately I missed seeing the signs as they are placed high up. However now I'm aware and will take care to observe the restriction.

Can you give me the reasons for the Order and the Order itself?

This restriction can only operate in term times, so the signage is inadequate under Reg 18 LATOR 1996 because it doesn't state "term times".  Therefore the signage is deficient."

I have also enquired from the School Streets department of the council as to which residents of the nearby streets received notification of the pending time restrictions as it's a new law that's been created. I received a map of the streets who were informed. Residents on the south side of my street received notification, the north side didn't which is the side I'm on. So I was not made aware of the council's  intention to put time restrictions in the road. This is a new policy which I had not seen advertised. I asked the council why the notifications were not sent to the whole street I live in but haven't received a response.
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Re: LB of Ealing Code 53J
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The 2 minutes might win it for you, but the lack of notice probably won't. Like all London councils, only the money counts for them. If it were me, I'd take them to London Tribunals on the 3 minutes and lack of notice, but in my opinion a win is not guaranteed. However see what the others say, but don't miss the deadline for payment of the discount if you decide not to fight the PCN.
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Re: LB of Ealing Code 53J
« Reply #8 on: »
Thank you for your response.
Were you able to read the NoR from the council?
They claim the signs are adequate. The fact that "in term times" is omitted would that not amount to insufficient signage as the restriction should not be effective when schools are closed.
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Re: LB of Ealing Code 53J
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Further to my last comment, there has been a recent case in London where the adjudicator ruled in the appellants favour because the sign did not reflect the Traffic Regulation Order establishing the restriction, so if the TRO is specific that the restriction only applies in term times, you could appeal on this basis.

Councils have a duty in The Local Authorities’ Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England and Wales) Regulations 1996 to place signs that convey the restriction to motorists.(see Regulation 18 (1)(a))
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/2489/regulation/18
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That's very helpful Incandescent 🙂
On that basis would you agree it's worth appealing?
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Re: LB of Ealing Code 53J
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Quote from: Twasbrillig on April 23, 2024, 09:56:45 pm
That's very helpful Incandescent 🙂
On that basis would you agree it's worth appealing?
It would be a long shot on its own, I think. Basically, if you're going to take them to London Tribunals, the main point would be the 2 minutes before the end of the restriction, pointing out that car clocks are rarely accurate to the nearest minute or two, and then secondly the sign not showing the restrictions imposed by the TRO.
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Thank you for your added response. Although you said it's a long shot on one point I hope that with both points emphasised I  will get a positive  response from the tribunal. It will definitely depend on the adjudicator. Fingers and toes crossed. I wonder if anything said by the council in their Notice of Rejection is worth raising?  Were you able to read it?
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Re: LB of Ealing Code 53J
« Reply #13 on: »
@Twasbrillig unfortunately we're a bit short-staffed at the moment, we struggle with recruitment somewhat given the pay rate for expert advice of £0 per hour.

Anyway, I think you might have an argument on signage but we can't really advice based on incomplete information, please read the guidance here and then re-post the PCN with nothing redacted apart from your name and address.

In the meantime I've requested the traffic order.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: LB of Ealing Code 53J
« Reply #14 on: »
@Twasbrillig you seem to have disappeared but I've now received this from the council:





The traffic order itself is The Ealing (Ravenor School Street) (No. 1) Traffic Order 2023 and it makes no mention of any pedestrian zone.

I can see you've filed an appeal, I suggest you don't try and do this all yourself or you risk ending up like one of these cases:

https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/warwickshire-cc-pcn-code-24-not-within-markings-of-bay-lakin-road-warwick/
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/eta-appeal-lost/

Please let us know when your hearing is.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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