Author Topic: LB Havering, code 62, one wheel over a "footpath"  (Read 1336 times)

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Re: LB Havering, code 62, one wheel over a "footpath"
« Reply #30 on: »
You are trying to jump your fences early and have no idea what form the fence will take or even if there is going to be one there at all.

I was just wondering (out of sheer curiosity), but I will surely follow the instructions exactly.
I will do it on Friday 04.05 to stretch the timelines as much as I can.

Cheers!

Re: LB Havering, code 62, one wheel over a "footpath"
« Reply #31 on: »
Guys,

I am making the representation.
What should I mark as the Representation Reason?
A - The alleged Contravention did not occur (as I claim it did not)
F - There has been a procedural impropriety by the Enforcement Authority (as they issued the PCN for an on-street contravention on an off-street parking) 
G - The traffic order contravened is invalid (on-street vs. off-street, as above?)

I suppose it's A, but I'd like to be 100% sure here.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2025, 08:37:27 pm by Mike_D »

Re: LB Havering, code 62, one wheel over a "footpath"
« Reply #32 on: »
A is fine
I help you pro bono (for free). I now ask that a £40 donation is made to the North London Hospice before I take over your case. I have an 85% success rate across 2,000 PCNs but some PCNs can't be beaten and I will tell you if your case looks hopeless before asking you to donate.

Re: LB Havering, code 62, one wheel over a "footpath"
« Reply #33 on: »
Thanks!

Submitted.
56 working days will fall on 25.07.2025.
I'll be on my holiday by the time, and I will be back on 14-15th of August - which will still give me ca. 10 days to react if they reject.
Fingers crossed they won't!  :)

Re: LB Havering, code 62, one wheel over a "footpath"
« Reply #34 on: »
Advice for you and all readers. Do not go on holiday for a month leaving your post untouched. No good can come fromk missing a deadline.
I help you pro bono (for free). I now ask that a £40 donation is made to the North London Hospice before I take over your case. I have an 85% success rate across 2,000 PCNs but some PCNs can't be beaten and I will tell you if your case looks hopeless before asking you to donate.

Re: LB Havering, code 62, one wheel over a "footpath"
« Reply #35 on: »
Submitted.[2 May]
56 working days will fall on 25.07.2025.


Really?

If submitted online then day 1 is 2 May. Day 56 is therefore 26 June.

Re: LB Havering, code 62, one wheel over a "footpath"
« Reply #36 on: »
My bad!
It's June, not July - I have no idea how I had calculated that before...  :-[
« Last Edit: May 05, 2025, 01:13:39 pm by Mike_D »

Re: LB Havering, code 62, one wheel over a "footpath"
« Reply #37 on: »
Guys, I had some second thoughts and I got confused again.

The message I got after making the representation clearly says they will respond within 56 WORKING days, not calendar days.
This excludes weekends and bank holidays, right?
If so, their deadline is (after recalculation) 23.07.2025...

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/n2bx0mphhgnd33mxmai9s/Representation-code-62.jpg?rlkey=gnk1765vok805pnprw90e1eue&st=3i8m2coy&dl=0

Re: LB Havering, code 62, one wheel over a "footpath"
« Reply #38 on: »
For a TMA 2004 PCN it should be 56 calendar days beginning with the day the formal representation against the Notice to Owner was received by the Enforcement Authority.

When did you actually submit your representation? 2nd May?

So if the 2nd May is day one then the 26th June is day 56. The response of accepted or refused needs to be issued and posted such that it is delivered to you not later than the 26th June. Else the EA is deemed to have accepted your representation.

In the above example the 24th June is the last day they could issue and post such a letter as 1st class post in the regulations is deemed to have arrived on the 2nd working day after posting.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2025, 11:56:59 am by Enceladus »

Re: LB Havering, code 62, one wheel over a "footpath"
« Reply #39 on: »
For a TMA 2004 PCN it should be 56 calendar days.
When did you actually submit your representation? 2nd May?
Yes, 56 days for responding to reps against a Notice to Owner

Re: LB Havering, code 62, one wheel over a "footpath"
« Reply #40 on: »
Yes, I did it on 2nd of May.
So the message was wrong and it should be 56 calendar days, actually?
I am a bit lost here...

Re: LB Havering, code 62, one wheel over a "footpath"
« Reply #41 on: »
Yes, I did it on 2nd of May.
So the message was wrong and it should be 56 calendar days, actually?
I am a bit lost here...

...........
So if the 2nd May is day one then the 26th June is day 56. The response of accepted or refused needs to be issued and posted such that it is delivered to you not later than the 26th June. Else the EA is deemed to have accepted your representation.

In the above example the 24th June is the last day they could issue and post such a letter as 1st class post in the regulations is deemed to have arrived on the 2nd working day after posting.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2025, 11:56:30 am by Enceladus »

Re: LB Havering, code 62, one wheel over a "footpath"
« Reply #42 on: »
The legislation - current is the Civil Enforcement of Road Traffic Contraventions (Representations and Appeals) (England) Regulations 2022 - specifies 56 days from the date on which the authority receives representations. Nothing to do with working days - that's just their mistake and probably down to a general policy for responding to all types of reps.

Re: LB Havering, code 62, one wheel over a "footpath"
« Reply #43 on: »

OK, so 26th June it is.
That will give me a lot of time to react before my vacation - if they reject again.   

As I have another PCN to challenge (dated 17.04.2025) HERE, I will not wait till next week to do it, but I will make the representation as soon as possible. 

Thanks for confirming the timelines!

Re: LB Havering, code 62, one wheel over a "footpath"
« Reply #44 on: »
This case from yesterday confirms it's an off-street car park. Or at least that's the status of this particular PCN.

-------

Case reference   2250165091
Appellant   RPBaker Ltd
Authority   London Borough of Havering
VRM   N11KBK
   
PCN Details
PCN   HG33536523
Contravention date   12 Aug 2024
Contravention time   16:15:00
Contravention location   Market Place Car Park, Romford
Penalty amount   GBP 130.00
Contravention   Parked in a restricted area in a car park
   
Referral date   -
   
Decision Date   03 Jun 2025
Adjudicator   Henry Michael Greenslade
Appeal decision   Appeal allowed
Direction   cancel the Penalty Charge Notice and the Notice to Owner.
Reasons   At this scheduled personal hearing the Appellant Company was represented by the diver Mr Richard Baker, who appeared in person via MS Teams.
The Enforcement Authority did not attend and was not represented, either in vision, by telephone, or in person.
A contravention can occur if a vehicle is parked in a restricted area of an off-street car park.
There appears to be no dispute that the vehicle was parked in Market Place car park, or that the Penalty Charge Notice was issued to it, as shown in the photographs/digital images produced by the Enforcement Authority.
The images show that the vehicle may be parked beyond the marking of a bay, although not shown to have a connection one. However, whilst parking beyond the bay markings is one of the conditions of use for this car park, contravention of which may lead to the issue of a Penalty Charge Notice, parking in a restricted area of the car park is not.
The Adjudicator is only able to decide an appeal by making findings of fact on the basis of the evidence actually produced by the parties and applying relevant law.
Considering carefully all the evidence before me I cannot find as a fact that, on this particular occasion, the contravention stated on the face of the Penalty Charge Notice did occur.
Accordingly, this appeal must be allowed.