Author Topic: Lambeth: Parking in Temporarily Suspended Bay Bavent Road Code 21  (Read 808 times)

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Re: Lambeth: Parking in Temporarily Suspended Bay Bavent Road Code 21
« Reply #15 on: »
Below is the draft letter I would like to submit to Lambeth today - please let me know of any thoughts.


Dear Sirs

Re PCN LJ332311242 dated 29/10/2024 served at Bavent Road.

I reside in Lambeth and have a resident permit with permission to park on Bavent Road. I have no prior park convictions and always am diligent about following parking rules.

On the day in question, I arrived at my house on Bavent Road, parked and went to my house at 68 Bavent Road. Neither of the parking bay signs near my car, which are located at 65 or 75, had any temporary suspension sign attached to them.  A motorist is entitled to take the parking conditions on the bay sign nearest to his car on the side where parked as valid.

On the grounds to inadequately signed suspension, I kindly urge to consider PCN to be cancelled.

Yours faithfully

Re: Lambeth: Parking in Temporarily Suspended Bay Bavent Road Code 21
« Reply #16 on: »
I reside in Lambeth and have a resident permit with permission to park on Bavent Road. I have no prior park convictions and always am diligent about following parking rules.

On the day in question, I arrived at my house on Bavent Road, parked and went to my house at 68 Bavent Road. Neither of the parking bay signs near my car, which are located at 65 or 75, had any temporary suspension sign attached to them.  A motorist is entitled to take the parking conditions on the bay sign nearest to his car on the side where parked as valid.

On the grounds to inadequately signed suspension, I kindly urge to consider PCN to be cancelled.
In view of the failure of the council adequately to sign the suspension, I request that the PCN be cancelled.

Re: Lambeth: Parking in Temporarily Suspended Bay Bavent Road Code 21
« Reply #17 on: »
Thanks - I usually tone down the language a bit but could be a cultural thing (US vs. UK) when appealing in these processes.

What kind of evidence or photographs should I provide?

I reside in Lambeth and have a resident permit with permission to park on Bavent Road. I have no prior park convictions and always am diligent about following parking rules.

On the day in question, I arrived at my house on Bavent Road, parked and went to my house at 68 Bavent Road. Neither of the parking bay signs near my car, which are located at 65 or 75, had any temporary suspension sign attached to them.  A motorist is entitled to take the parking conditions on the bay sign nearest to his car on the side where parked as valid.

On the grounds to inadequately signed suspension, I kindly urge to consider PCN to be cancelled.
In view of the failure of the council adequately to sign the suspension, I request that the PCN be cancelled.

Re: Lambeth: Parking in Temporarily Suspended Bay Bavent Road Code 21
« Reply #18 on: »
This is an informal challenge, 99% of which are rejected by councils no matter how valid because they know that most people then cough-up. You have to be made of stern stuff to stand up to council shenanigans. You live at 68, so are between two signs for the bay, neither of which had a suspension sign, so you have a very strong case to take them all the way to adjudication if necessary The maximum amount in play at the adjudicators is the penalty charge, there are no extra costs. For the council, they have to pay a fee to the adjudicators so if they lose they council is out of pocket. 

If the suspension sign is still in place, take photos of the two signs without and put them in your reps.

I suspect they will just bluff their way on this one until you register an appeal at London Tribunals then not contest.  This is blatant gaming of the system, but there are no penalties in law to stop them, other than the adjudicator fee, payable if they win or lose

Re: Lambeth: Parking in Temporarily Suspended Bay Bavent Road Code 21
« Reply #19 on: »
Thank you. I launched a informal complain will keep you posted.

Re: Lambeth: Parking in Temporarily Suspended Bay Bavent Road Code 21
« Reply #20 on: »
Hi,

I received the attached rejection by the council. What is the next step in the appeal process? Do I have to make an appeal in person? I am weighting the effort versus paying double jeopardy for the fine.

Thanks,


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Re: Lambeth: Parking in Temporarily Suspended Bay Bavent Road Code 21
« Reply #21 on: »
Well, it's up to you, but they have sent you their usual Fob-Off letter that does not address in any way the points made in your reps. Pay up if you want, but if it were me, I'd be waiting for the Notice to Owner, and submitting formal reps, and if again rejected, take them to London Tribunals.  If councils decide to suspend parking they have a duty to sign it adequately. They failed to do so.

Re: Lambeth: Parking in Temporarily Suspended Bay Bavent Road Code 21
« Reply #22 on: »
Quote
Well, it's up to you, but they have sent you their usual Fob-Off letter that does not address in any way the points made in your reps. Pay up if you want, but if it were me, I'd be waiting for the Notice to Owner, and submitting formal reps, and if again rejected, take them to London Tribunals.  If councils decide to suspend parking they have a duty to sign it adequately. They failed to do so.

I will challenge the ticket. So there is no action for me until I get the Notice to Owner? Then I can submit the formal rep online, should I submit anything different that in the informal rep. Is the entire process online or via post or do I need to go in person?

The reason I ask is that a few years back I took a big shipping company to small claims court. At the end, I was succesful but it was quite painful with different forms needing to be in by different times and then having to go to court versus a big shot law firm. Lots of stress!

Re: Lambeth: Parking in Temporarily Suspended Bay Bavent Road Code 21
« Reply #23 on: »
Quote
I will challenge the ticket. So there is no action for me until I get the Notice to Owner? Then I can submit the formal rep online, should I submit anything different that in the informal rep. Is the entire process online or via post or do I need to go in person?

Firtly, are you the owner, and hold the V5 Registration Certificate for the vehicle ? The Notice to Owner is sent to the name and address on the V5. Is this name and address correct and up-to-date ?

Your informal reps will need to be beefed-up a bit to be formal reps, but not by too much. The NtO process is that they send you it in the post, and you can normally respond on-line.  This may be where it gets more interesting as some council seem to have totally cocked-up there on-line pages for submitting representations, but we won't know until we see the NtO.

If you get to London Tribunals, you can register an appeal on line, and select a hearing or an adjudication on the papers by an adjudicator. Do NOT select the latter, it is of paramount importance that you be present. However, no need to trek up to their offices, as most appeals are done over the phone nowadays.  The councils almost never turn up, BTW. Some contributors here may offer to represent you on a pro bono basis, as they like to see the councils squirm.

Re: Lambeth: Parking in Temporarily Suspended Bay Bavent Road Code 21
« Reply #24 on: »
I have now received the Notice to Owner. I need to fill out a form for making representation. I need to fill out Grounds for representation, give evidence of detail and submit supporting evidence.

1. What representation should I select?
- The alleged contravention did not occur
- the traffic order which is alleged to have contravened is invalid
- there has been a procedural impropriety on the part of enforcement authority

2. In Section 3, what detail of representation should I include above amd beyond the informal statement I included above?

3. What additional evidence should I include - e.g photographs of signs near the parked car with no notice on them?

Thanks

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Re: Lambeth: Parking in Temporarily Suspended Bay Bavent Road Code 21
« Reply #25 on: »
I have now received the Notice to Owner. I need to fill out a form for making representation. I need to fill out Grounds for representation, give evidence of detail and submit supporting evidence.

1. What representation should I select?
- The alleged contravention did not occur
- the traffic order which is alleged to have contravened is invalid
- there has been a procedural impropriety on the part of enforcement authority

2. In Section 3, what detail of representation should I include above amd beyond the informal statement I included above?

3. What additional evidence should I include - e.g photographs of signs near the parked car with no notice on them?

Thanks
For 1, select
"alleged contravention did no occur"
and
"there has been a procedural impropriety...etc"
(you are not restricted to a single statutory ground)

For 2
You informal reps, plus "the council in their response to my informal challenge have totally ignored the points made in that challenge, thus committing a procedural impropriety of failure to consider, one of their statutory duties within the relevant regulations.

For 3
Photographs essential

Others may suggest additional items.

Re: Lambeth: Parking in Temporarily Suspended Bay Bavent Road Code 21
« Reply #26 on: »
Thanks. I see I can make representation online. Happy to send informal representation plus paragraph above as well as photos taken the night off showing no signage at 65 and 75. Anything to add before I submit?
« Last Edit: December 08, 2024, 09:36:14 pm by pred02 »

Re: Lambeth: Parking in Temporarily Suspended Bay Bavent Road Code 21
« Reply #27 on: »
Thanks. I see I can make representation online. Happy to send informal representation plus paragraph above as well as photos taken the night off showing no signage at 65 and 75. Anything to add before I submit?
Post your proposed text for a review, if you want.

Re: Lambeth: Parking in Temporarily Suspended Bay Bavent Road Code 21
« Reply #28 on: »
Thanks. I see I can make representation online. Happy to send informal representation plus paragraph above as well as photos taken the night off showing no signage at 65 and 75. Anything to add before I submit?
Post your proposed text for a review, if you want.

I reside in Lambeth and have a resident permit with permission to park on Bavent Road.

On the day in question, I arrived at my house on Bavent Road, parked and went to my house at 68 Bavent Road. Neither of the parking bay signs near my car, which are located at 65 or 75, had any temporary suspension sign attached to them.  A motorist is entitled to take the parking conditions on the bay sign nearest to his car on the side where parked as valid.

In view of the failure of the council adequately to sign the suspension, I request that the PCN be cancelled.

The council in their response to my informal challenge have totally ignored the points made in that challenge, thus committing a procedural impropriety of failure to consider, one of their statutory duties within the relevant regulations.


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Re: Lambeth: Parking in Temporarily Suspended Bay Bavent Road Code 21
« Reply #29 on: »
I live at 68 Bavent Road and hold a residents permit.

The properties in the road are numbered sequentially albeit on opposite sides i.e. my side runs from 55A to 82(55,56,57..etc) while that opposite runs from 1-54.

On my side there is a parking place which extends from no.61 to no.84. Within this the council have placed 3 traffic signs pursuant to their duty to place  such traffic signs in such positions as the order making authority may consider requisite for securing that adequate information as to the effect of the order is made available to persons using the road;

These are situated o/s nos. 61,65 and 75.

On the day in question, I parked o/s no.68, took a glance at the nearest traffic sign and went to my house. When I returned to my car I noticed the PCN. I looked around and finally found a single suspension sign placed o/s no.61. This meant that despite the suspended area falling between nos. 64 and 74 and there being 2 traffic signs within or in the vicinity of this area the council decided to place a single suspension sign outside the suspended area.

I refer you to the council's regulatory duty above which, as you should know, continues with 'c)in a case where the order revokes, amends or alters the application of a previous order, the removal or replacement of existing traffic signs as the authority considers requisite to avoid confusion to road users by signs being left in the wrong positions.

A suspension 'amends' the application of the traffic order and yet despite this the council have adopted a lower standard of signing - one which I assert is not open to them and unlawful- by placing only a single sign which was not within or in the vicinity of the area to be suspended.

The responsibility of a motorist is to refer to the nearest applicable traffic sign(in my case o/s no.65) which I did, and not to 'traipse the streets' to use a phrase adopted by adjudicators looking for another which in any event in this case would simply have revealed an unamended traffic sign o/s no.75.


The council have failed to meet their regulatory duty under regulation 18 of the Local Authorities' Traffic Order etc. Regulations and consequently have no lawful authority to demand a penalty which must be cancelled. 

My views on a longer version.

OP, are the specific details correct?