3. TFL Stopping on a red route
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TFL Stopping on a red route
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This is the second PCN that I've posted up today.

One difference, the Haringey one state 28 days from the date of this letter, this TFL one states 28 days from the date of service.  Why the difference?  Is one incorrect?

I don't even remember stopping on that day, it may have been to buy a bottle of water as I was feeling parched and unwell.  I'm a diabetic.

Here are the pictures, can anyone help?

https://imgur.com/a/MIwi56U

https://imgur.com/a/5pZpXpJ

https://imgur.com/a/Tfb0DCQ

https://imgur.com/a/nrCqBpU

https://imgur.com/a/mjrTJ8Q

https://imgur.com/a/1MdYNiC
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Re: TFL Stopping on a red route
« Reply #1 on: »
The TfL PCN on this thread is under the Traffic Management Act 2004, where deadlines are from date of service. Your other PCN is probably under the LLA & TfL Act 2003, which is, basically, flawed in that deadline to pay is from date of notice, and date to submit reps is from date of service. It really is about time this latter Act was junked and London councils and TfL forced to use the TMA 2004.
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Re: TFL Stopping on a red route
« Reply #2 on: »
I've either got to pay this soon or make representations.  Obviously I'd rather do the latter but can someone tell me what grounds I may have an appeal case?
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Re: TFL Stopping on a red route
« Reply #3 on: »
@Korting for now put in a one-line representation saying that the alleged contravention did not occur, submit this via the TFL website and take a screenshot of the confirmation page.

In the morning call TFL on 0343 222 3333 and ask for the CCTV, they will send you a DVD in the post.

The TMO is The GLA Roads and GLA Side Roads (Southwark) Red Route Consolidation Traffic Order 2007 as amended by The GLA Roads and GLA Side Roads (Southwark) Red Route Consolidation Traffic Order 2007 A202 GLA Road Variation Order 2014, the relevant entry is at page 2 of the 2014 Order:

A202 CAMBERWELL NEW ROAD, the north-east side, from a point 1 metre north-west of the common boundary of No.177 to 183 Camberwell New Road and No. 185 Camberwell New Road to a point 1 metre north-west of the common boundary of Nos. 171 and 173 Camberwell New Road.

This is all wrong, No.177 to 183 Camberwell New Road is the Co-Op here https://maps.app.goo.gl/xhtKS3GwDRSiubeX8 so the bay should start 1 metre from the boundary between the Co-op and the house at number 185, the bay should run to the point where the laundrette's door is seen here https://maps.app.goo.gl/91gXwv4zPfAi5jWV6

TFL might argue that because you were stopped where a bay should be marked this doesn't matter, but it's definitely worth running the argument at the tribunal that the road is not marked correctly (and the sign should be facing traffic and it isn't).

And then there's the issue that the Notice of Rejection template used by TFL is flawed, that's a tried and tested ground. I think TFL have now tried six or seven reviews and they've failed every time.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: TFL Stopping on a red route
« Reply #4 on: »
Quote from: Incandescent on February 04, 2025, 12:05:12 pm
The TfL PCN on this thread is under the Traffic Management Act 2004, where deadlines are from date of service. Your other PCN is probably under the LLA & TfL Act 2003, which is, basically, flawed in that deadline to pay is from date of notice, and date to submit reps is from date of service. It really is about time this latter Act was junked and London councils and TfL forced to use the TMA 2004.
As mrmustard would say: be careful what you wish for. The less homogeneity, the better chances we have of winning as the council minions are not completely au fait with the legislation(s) and their subtle differences. But, who am I to preach in view of my petition! Another conundrum which bothers me every day.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2025, 09:35:31 pm by Hippocrates »
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IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r
Re: TFL Stopping on a red route
« Reply #5 on: »
The only thing I put on the appeal was 'the contravention did not occur'

They were supposed to send me a confirmation email, they have not done so.
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Re: TFL Stopping on a red route
« Reply #6 on: »
It's well over a week since I put in an appeal, also on Monday I phoned and requested a DVD of the video,  Whilst on the phone the assistant told me that my appeal had been rejected and that I should have had an email, I have not, then I was told the rejection was sent in the post, I still haven't received it or the DVD.

Where do I go from here?

I need a code from TFL to go to tribunal, what happens if the letter never arrives?
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Re: TFL Stopping on a red route
« Reply #7 on: »
Quote from: Korting on March 02, 2025, 02:23:40 pm
I need a code from TFL to go to tribunal, what happens if the letter never arrives?
There is no code for TFL cases, and you don't need to receive the rejection: you can appeal anyway as long as you know a notice of rejection exists. I'll drop you an email.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: TFL Stopping on a red route
« Reply #8 on: »
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: TFL Stopping on a red route
« Reply #9 on: »
Thank you all very much, fantastic result.  Now to the next one.
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