Author Topic: Lambeth 52m PCN (Shannon Grove) – police van obstruction + signage grounds – representations rejected  (Read 208 times)

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Hi all,

I'm looking for advice on a Lambeth moving traffic PCN (code 52m – motor vehicle prohibition) that I've challenged and had rejected. Wondering if it's worth taking to the E&TA.

Here's what happened:

I was driving along a road at night in wet conditions when a large police van in front of me slowed and then stopped just before  a junction ahead, completely blocking my path. At the same moment I heard sirens from an emergency vehicle approaching rapidly from behind me. With nowhere to go forward and an emergency vehicle closing in from the rear, I turned left into the only available side road as you see in the video, which turned out to be a motor vehicle prohibited street:


Reversing on a narrow road in the dark, in the rain, into an oncoming emergency vehicle was not a safe or realistic option. Esp[ecially with police behind me. The turn was not a choice — it was the only safe thing I could do.

The second point i made in my rep: The signage issue

The video and image evidence showing the prohibition sign at the junction appears to be positioned almost edge-on to approaching traffic rather than facing it — meaning it wasn't readable as a prohibitory sign until it was too late to act on it. The no left turn sign on the approach was also blocked from my view by the police van which was directly ahead of me the whole time. It was also night, raining, and the signs were not illuminated.

3rd Representation point: Personal circumstances at the time

Immediately before this journey I had been the victim of a serious assault and was in a state of significant distress and shock while driving. I raised this not as a legal defence but as a mitigating factor going to proportionality. Lambeth didn't acknowledge it at all in their rejection.

Fourth issue: Council's procedural delay

The PCN was not delivered to my letterbox — it ended up in a communal area of my building where it could easily have been missed. When I contacted the council for help, they confirmed in writing they would respond within 5 working days. They missed that deadline by a day — and that one day happened to be the exact day the charge escalated from the discounted rate to the full rate, leaving me less than half a working day to prepare my representations. I argued this caused me real prejudice and that it would be unfair to hold me to the higher charge in those circumstances.

How Lambeth rejected it

Their rejection letter didn't appear to engage with any of my specific points. They just repeated that the signs are reflective so visible at night, lighting isn't needed at 20mph, and it's the driver's responsibility to observe road signs. Nothing on the police van, the sign orientation, the personal circumstances, or the delay issue.

My questions

Is the "forced turn due to police obstruction" argument viable at E&TA, framed as the contravention not occurring rather than as mitigation?

Has anyone had success on sign orientation / TSRGD compliance grounds with video evidence?
Can the personal circumstances (assault/distress) carry any weight at E&TA or is that purely a mitigation point the adjudicator can't consider?
Does the council's procedural delay and its impact on my ability to prepare help at appeal stage, or is that better raised as a separate maladministration complaint?
Does a boilerplate rejection that completely ignores your actual arguments count in your favour at tribunal?

Should I file now to protect the deadline and gather evidence after, or get everything together first?

The rejection letter is dated 23 April. I have until 7 May to pay the discounted £80, and until 21 May to either pay £160 or file an E&TA appeal — so I'd ideally like advice before 6 May if possible. If I do appeal, my understanding is I file online at www.LondonTribunals.gov.uk and choose between a written/postal decision or a personal hearing via Microsoft Teams or phone. It's free to appeal, and if I lose the charge stays at £160 — it doesn't jump to £240 just for appealing. Can anyone confirm that's right, and whether a personal hearing is worth requesting?


Thanks so much for your help I've tried to do as much research into the technical legalities as possible before posting here, but you're experience and insight would be invaluable.

Thanks in advance.









Lambeth's PCN:
Image LJ36128090 PCN (Sent Late) Redacted in the Brixton SHanon Grove album
ImgBB · ibb.co

My Rep Letter:
Image PCN Appeal LJ36128090 Redacted in the Brixton SHanon Grove album
ImgBB · ibb.co

Lambeth Council's response:
Image Our Response to you Redacted in the Bbtryk's images album
ImgBB · ibb.co


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Check their website NOW. We win cases because of it. I am happy to file an appeal.
@Incandescent!

I AM ABLE TO TAKE ON MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. I HATE RETIREMENT.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"

Hi,

Thanks for reply.

Which website?

I don't see a link.

And could some ideas/advise not be posted here on this website - Free Traffic Legal Advice? That way it would also help others?

Thanks

@Incandescent!

I AM ABLE TO TAKE ON MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. I HATE RETIREMENT.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"

okay,

Is anyone else here [on this forum, no private posts or private links please] able to comment or advise on what to do in a situation like this?

Do i Make a formal appeal (representation)

or do I appeal to the Environment and Traffic Adjudicators service

And if so, what would you recommend i put in my appeal?

I appreciate your thoughts,

thanks.
A Lemon Tootski - a term I call for that lovely lemon Fixed Penalty Sticker that appears on your windscreen, after a nice day out with the kids.

A Lemon Tootski: The only souvenir from your family day out that really sticks with you!

It would appear that Lemon Tootski and motor-angel are one and the same? This is confusing, to say the least . . .


You ask for advice. If you look at Hippocrates' record on this forum of success in fighting Lambeth cases, I would strongly advise your taking up his kind offer in Reply#1 above.

Quote
Do i Make a formal appeal (representation)
or do I appeal to the Environment and Traffic Adjudicators service

You have already posted the rejection of your representation  in your opening post, so next step is tribunal.
What was the outcome of your case here in December?
« Last Edit: Today at 11:40:57 am by John U.K. »

@LemonTootski we don't allow duplicate accounts.

If Hippocrates has offered to help, I'd take him up on that.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order