Author Topic: Lewisham-contravention 52m - Leahurst Rd westbound - representation rejected  (Read 134 times)

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Marisha

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Hi  all

I submitted representation for a PCN I received from Lewisham for contravention of 52 m on Leahurst road - westbound, which was rejected. Based my representation on what I read on this forum and obviously totally agree with the previous posts that signage is inadequate. Seeing that few people appealed successfully, I thought the council would cancel my PCN. Which is unfortunately not the case. I really want to appeal it but not sure if I can just use the same wording from the links posted on the previous posts? Appreciate your advice @cp8759, @Hippocrates

https://imgur.com/a/5BiFjv6
« Last Edit: October 06, 2024, 10:45:12 am by Marisha »

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Incandescent

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They refuse all representations, because they know that most people then cough-up, not wanting to risk the extra £65 at London Tribunals. It a nice little earner for them.

Hippocrates

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@Marisha I am happy to deal with this one for you. I will PM you my details. I need to see all what you wrote and their unredacted Notice of Rejection. I have hearings on the 29th dealing with 16 PCNs. They had decided not to contest the other 6.
There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply.
"Hippocrates"

ἔοικα γοῦν τούτου γε σμικρῷ τινι αὐτῷ τούτῳ σοφώτερος εἶναι, ὅτι ἃ μὴ οἶδα οὐδὲ οἴομαι ε

cp8759

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@Marisha I strongly recommend you let Hippocrates sort this out for you. The council rejects everything because if they accept representations they get nothing, if they reject they get to keep all the money from the penalty for themselves.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Hippocrates

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@Marisha I strongly recommend you let Hippocrates sort this out for you. The council rejects everything because if they accept representations they get nothing, if they reject they get to keep all the money from the penalty for themselves.
@cp8759 Thanks. We are in contact. BTW, the other 16 will hopefully be heard on 29th October and all consolidated. Not that I approve, but, no wonder the sign has been vandalised recently!

Filed.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2024, 08:35:07 pm by Hippocrates »
There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply.
"Hippocrates"

ἔοικα γοῦν τούτου γε σμικρῷ τινι αὐτῷ τούτῳ σοφώτερος εἶναι, ὅτι ἃ μὴ οἶδα οὐδὲ οἴομαι ε
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Hippocrates

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 ;D 2240451990
There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply.
"Hippocrates"

ἔοικα γοῦν τούτου γε σμικρῷ τινι αὐτῷ τούτῳ σοφώτερος εἶναι, ὅτι ἃ μὴ οἶδα οὐδὲ οἴομαι ε

Incandescent

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;D 2240451990
costs ? Surely the "wholly unreasonable" test is met.

H C Andersen

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Odd reasoning IMO.

This has nothing to do with the NoR whose contents are prescribed. This relates to:

Charge certificates
5(1)Where a penalty charge notice is served on any person and the penalty charge to which it relates is not paid before the end of the relevant period, the enforcing authority may serve on that person a statement (in this paragraph referred to as a “charge certificate”) to the effect that the penalty charge in question is increased by 50 per cent.

(2)The relevant period, in relation to a penalty charge notice is the period of 28 days beginning—

(a)where no representations are made under paragraph 1 above, with the date on which the penalty charge notice is served;

(b)where such representations are made and a notice of rejection is served by the enforcing authority and no appeal against the notice of rejection is made with the date on which the period within which an appeal could have been made expires;

or

(c)where there has been an unsuccessful appeal against a notice of rejection, with the date on which notice of the adjudicator’s decision is served on the appellant.



IMO, it's not about confusion, it's about legality: subsequent to being notified by the adjudicator that an appeal had been registered, no legal right to issue a CC exists unless para. 5(1)(c) is engaged.

Go for costs and see what happens.

Hippocrates

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I will give it some thought particularly as they have changed the signs and DNCed another one which should have been heard  yesterday.

2240426745

I was just relieved to win.  I will put up all the evidence later.

I did say the threat was "illegal" and an abuse of the statutory process, even though they back-peddled by rescinding it nearer the hearing date.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2024, 06:41:59 pm by Hippocrates »
There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply.
"Hippocrates"

ἔοικα γοῦν τούτου γε σμικρῷ τινι αὐτῷ τούτῳ σοφώτερος εἶναι, ὅτι ἃ μὴ οἶδα οὐδὲ οἴομαι ε

cp8759

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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order