Author Topic: Lambeth - 32j - 2 x PCN - Central Hill  (Read 737 times)

0 Members and 17 Guests are viewing this topic.

Lambeth - 32j - 2 x PCN - Central Hill
« on: »
Hello,

A friend got 2 x PCN for the same contravention. No idea what they were thinking, given how clear the signage is

PCNs and website payment demand below

PCN 1







PCN 2






Appeal for PCN 1 (very weak)

PCN Validity – Collateral challenge

The demands on the PCN website made are deemed excessive on screen website (see above)...

I do note that a few by Hippocrates has been won upon NoR and then at tribunal showing excessive

Appeal for PCN 2


That the penalty charge exceeded the amount applicable in the circumstances of the case.

Continuing Contravention
The above PCN were sent sequentially, however I was not aware of the initial PCN XXXXXX. Thus it would be deemed disproportionate to punish multiple times, as the driver was not aware.

I would like to draw your attention to the following case:

2160273606

The appellant does not deny the contravention but states that he was travelling to Highgate hospital and was a stranger to the area and made the same mistake twice in one day as a consequence of which he received two PCN's
I am satisfied form the evidence that the contravention did occur. However I also find that as the there is a time lag in issuing a PCN by post, a motorist can unwittingly continue to make the same mistake until they receive notification of the PCN and in these circumstances I find the second PCN issued to be a continuing contravention and allow the appeal in relation to the second PCN under case number 2160273606 but refuse the first PCN issued under case number 2160273661



In light of the aforementioned, I was not aware of any subsequent PCN thus ask for this PCN to cancelled.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2025, 12:43:32 am by theeagleman »

Share on Bluesky Share on Facebook


Re: Lambeth - 32j - 2 x PCN - Central Hill
« Reply #1 on: »
Instructions are to not redact PCN Number and vehicle registration on PCNs, as it means we can't go and look at the photos and in this case, the video, the sole evidence.

Also, please post a GSV link to the location, because Central Hill is a long street. In fact by not specifying the street the driver turned into, you could claim 'vague locus'. A postal PCN is sent to the registered keeper who may not have been driving at the time. This has won appeals in the past at London Tribunals.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2025, 12:48:54 am by Incandescent »

Re: Lambeth - 32j - 2 x PCN - Central Hill
« Reply #2 on: »
OP, the vehicle is used commercially which invites the questions:

who is the registered keeper?
if your friend, is the PCN addressed to them personally or in a business capacity?


Re: Lambeth - 32j - 2 x PCN - Central Hill
« Reply #3 on: »
Instructions are to not redact PCN Number and vehicle registration on PCNs, as it means we can't go and look at the photos and in this case, the video, the sole evidence.

Also, please post a GSV link to the location, because Central Hill is a long street. In fact by not specifying the street the driver turned into, you could claim 'vague locus'. A postal PCN is sent to the registered keeper who may not have been driving at the time. This has won appeals in the past at London Tribunals.

Sorry, I am still in the old way of thought with the previous forum.

PCN 1


PCN 2



GSV Location - https://maps.app.goo.gl/6HyQs3DLZZePeYw56

Turned left on Gipsy Hill


OP, the vehicle is used commercially which invites the questions:

who is the registered keeper?
if your friend, is the PCN addressed to them personally or in a business capacity?


Registered keeper is in my friends name and address, and PCN was personally addressed.

Nothing in a business capacity in relation to the RK (it is used for that though)

Re: Lambeth - 32j - 2 x PCN - Central Hill
« Reply #4 on: »
This advance sign is against you : -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/SP2Bgc47tPahQotr8
The traffic lights have a straight ahead arrow beside the green phase light which has a green straight ahead arrow as well:-
https://maps.app.goo.gl/cHMpruunck7VTrtr6
So your case is not strong, in my opinion.

Re: Lambeth - 32j - 2 x PCN - Central Hill
« Reply #5 on: »
This advance sign is against you : -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/SP2Bgc47tPahQotr8
The traffic lights have a straight ahead arrow beside the green phase light which has a green straight ahead arrow as well:-
https://maps.app.goo.gl/cHMpruunck7VTrtr6
So your case is not strong, in my opinion.

Thank you for your opinion.

I agree.

However, does the second PCN have a case for "continuing contravention"? in your view

Re: Lambeth - 32j - 2 x PCN - Central Hill
« Reply #6 on: »
The issue on which to win is the website.
I REGRET THAT, FOR THE PRESENT, I AM UNABLE TO TAKE ON ANY MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. THIS IS FOR BOTH PERSONAL AND LEGAL REASONS. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME UNLESS YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR THREAD ON THE FORUM AND I WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ADVICE.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"

Re: Lambeth - 32j - 2 x PCN - Central Hill
« Reply #7 on: »
The issue on which to win is the website.

Is this based on after the initial reps, on their site giving a demand?
or is the current demand a potential technicality?

For PCN 1. Discount option runs out on Sunday, so any draft you can point me to to file, would be grateful.

Vague locus another?
« Last Edit: July 11, 2025, 10:43:32 pm by theeagleman »

Re: Lambeth - 32j - 2 x PCN - Central Hill
« Reply #8 on: »
Lambeth have as expected rejected both appeals - same rejection on both appeals.



on NoR it states 14 days it will go 160, and 28 days it will be 240.

Site states this Friday it will be 240 (The demands on their site as per below)



Re: Lambeth - 32j - 2 x PCN - Central Hill
« Reply #9 on: »
Please show the NORs.
I REGRET THAT, FOR THE PRESENT, I AM UNABLE TO TAKE ON ANY MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. THIS IS FOR BOTH PERSONAL AND LEGAL REASONS. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME UNLESS YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR THREAD ON THE FORUM AND I WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ADVICE.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"

Re: Lambeth - 32j - 2 x PCN - Central Hill
« Reply #10 on: »
Sorry for late response

Inital Reps + NoR 1






Inital Reps + NoR 2







Thanks!

Re: Lambeth - 32j - 2 x PCN - Central Hill
« Reply #11 on: »
The usual failure to consider so you know what my advice is.  ;D
I REGRET THAT, FOR THE PRESENT, I AM UNABLE TO TAKE ON ANY MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. THIS IS FOR BOTH PERSONAL AND LEGAL REASONS. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME UNLESS YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR THREAD ON THE FORUM AND I WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ADVICE.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"

Re: Lambeth - 32j - 2 x PCN - Central Hill
« Reply #12 on: »
The usual failure to consider so you know what my advice is.  ;D

Indeed...

I will lodge the initial tribunal appeal.

I guess the main reason is:

The penalty charge exceeded the amount applicable in the circumstances of the case

Re: Lambeth - 32j - 2 x PCN - Central Hill
« Reply #13 on: »
Hold fire please. This needs one of us to represent you and file the appeal. I am available and willing.
I REGRET THAT, FOR THE PRESENT, I AM UNABLE TO TAKE ON ANY MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. THIS IS FOR BOTH PERSONAL AND LEGAL REASONS. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME UNLESS YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR THREAD ON THE FORUM AND I WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ADVICE.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"

Re: Lambeth - 32j - 2 x PCN - Central Hill
« Reply #14 on: »
I really appreciate that!

But I can see you have A LOT ON YOUR PCN PLATE right now, and I do not wish to add more burden  :(

If you are able to guide me, I am happy to do it, and learn along the way  :)