3. Kingston Council, PCN 31J – Entering and stopping in a yellow box, Kingston Road
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Kingston Council, PCN 31J – Entering and stopping in a yellow box, Kingston Road
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Hi all,
I’ve received a Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) from the Royal Borough of Kingston upon Thames. The details are as follows:
•PCN Number: QT11494216
•Vehicle Registration: PO64PKC
•Date of Notice: 11/11/2025
•Alleged Contravention: 31J – Entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited (camera enforcement)
•Location: Kingston Road
•Date/Time of Contravention: 08/11/2025 at 15:59
I would appreciate advice on whether there are any grounds to challenge this PCN, or if there are any known issues with Kingston’s enforcement of box junctions at this location. I have not yet made any payment or representation.
Images of the PCN and evidence:
I have uploaded all sides of the PCN and the evidence images to imgpile.com – see links below.
• PCN




• Evidence images







Google Street View link to location:

Google Street View of location

My argument

The video file (accessible via the council’s evidence portal) is key in my view. As the video shows, as I was driving down Kingston Road the car in front started indicating right. To stop before the yellow box would have required me to break sharply, risking collison from the rear – plus my family was in the car. Hence, I took the decision to continue into the box in the expectation the car in front would clear it before I had to stop: unfortunately, the car in front stopped early and took their turn late – all meaning I spent a few seconds inside the box.


I’m keen to understand if there are any technical or procedural flaws I can use, or if there’s any advice on how best to proceed. Please let me know if you need any more information or images.
Thank you for your help!
« Last Edit: November 15, 2025, 03:01:39 pm by rumple_silly »
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Re: Kingston Council, PCN 31J – Entering and stopping in a yellow box, Kingston Road
« Reply #1 on: »
There have been a lot of allowed appeals here but it looks like they've redesigned the box.

Looks like a contravention to me as the car ahead was signalling and you had room to stop. You also had ample room to drive around on the left.

Hippo knows best about Kingston PCNs.

« Last Edit: November 15, 2025, 05:13:27 pm by stamfordman »
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Re: Kingston Council, PCN 31J – Entering and stopping in a yellow box, Kingston Road
« Reply #2 on: »
Ah, this is the other box.

1. The locus is too vague therefore the PCN is void.

2. The PCN omits mandatory information as the LLA and TFL Act 2003 provides at Part 2.  4(8 )(v) which relates to (iii) thereby rendering the PCN unclear.

3. With regard to 1 and 2 above, I rely upon Hackney Drivers High Court case as referenced in Mr Lane's decision of 2240084051.


******************

Re 2: please see my link in my profile which explains it.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2025, 04:59:45 pm by Hippocrates »
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IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r
Re: Kingston Council, PCN 31J – Entering and stopping in a yellow box, Kingston Road
« Reply #3 on: »
Thanks for the responses. Bit noob to this so been trying to get my head round the references (including a review of underlying legislation and previous appeal)....

Hippo, in my appeal response is it enough to simply point out the locus is vague, or should I also add the other omission you noted?
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Re: Kingston Council, PCN 31J – Entering and stopping in a yellow box, Kingston Road
« Reply #4 on: »
I doubt an adjudicator will agree you couldn't have stopped before the box.
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Re: Kingston Council, PCN 31J – Entering and stopping in a yellow box, Kingston Road
« Reply #5 on: »
Noted :) I am going to try my luck then I guess. I note the PCN doesn't include (i) procedural errors (as noted by Hippo), or (ii) mitigating explanations in my case, just wondering if I should submit on both grounds or whether it would be stronger to point to the procedural errors only. Many thanks
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Re: Kingston Council, PCN 31J – Entering and stopping in a yellow box, Kingston Road
« Reply #6 on: »
Just use my draft verbatim!
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IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r
Re: Kingston Council, PCN 31J – Entering and stopping in a yellow box, Kingston Road
« Reply #7 on: »
Quote from: rumple_silly on November 19, 2025, 08:55:34 pm
Thanks for the responses. Bit noob to this so been trying to get my head round the references (including a review of underlying legislation and previous appeal)....

Hippo, in my appeal response is it enough to simply point out the locus is vague, or should I also add the other omission you noted?

See my post and copy and paste the link in my profile to expand point 2.

I make this collateral challenge against the validity of the PCN as it is missing mandatory information as provided at Para. 4 (8 ) (v) of


https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/2003/3/section/4/enacted

(v)that, if the penalty charge is not paid before the end of the 28 day period, an increased

charge may be payable.

Clearly, this refers to Para. 4 (8 ) (iii):

(iii)that the penalty charge must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning

with the date of the notice;

Therefore, it follows that the statement: "If you fail to pay the Penalty Charge or make representations before the end of a period of 28 days beginning with the date of service of this notice an increased charge of £240 may be payable” adds to the lack of clarity by its omission. Even on its own, whether the required information was included or not, it is also arguable that it conflates the two periods using the word "or" which many would view as being conjunctive. Furthermore, even if the statement were to be interpreted disjunctively, there is still no clarity due to the missing information. So, it follows that it cannot possibly be interpreted disjunctively.
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IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r
Re: Kingston Council, PCN 31J – Entering and stopping in a yellow box, Kingston Road
« Reply #8 on: »
Hippo, much appreciated and all points noted - I am almost there. Always takes me time (and research) to understand the subtlety of the argument (blame the finance rather than legal or linguistic background....)

I was about to submit my appeal online but notice Kingston's online system doesn't provide a check-box for procedural impropriety as appeal grounds. See grounds below....maybe I need to write to the council via a physical letter by post



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Re: Kingston Council, PCN 31J – Entering and stopping in a yellow box, Kingston Road
« Reply #9 on: »
There is no statutory ground for 'procedural impropriety' within the London Local Authorities & Transport for London aCT 2003 which your PCN was served under. So obviously it isn't included in the list on their website.
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Re: Kingston Council, PCN 31J – Entering and stopping in a yellow box, Kingston Road
« Reply #10 on: »
Great, noted and thanks all. I have filed made the representation using the lack of compliance and my mitigating circumstances.
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Re: Kingston Council, PCN 31J – Entering and stopping in a yellow box, Kingston Road
« Reply #11 on: »
Unfortunately have received a reply from Kingston Council stating the representation has been rejected, upholding the original PCN. As for the two procedural improprieties (i) notice period, and (ii) vague locus the council's letter states that 'we are satisfied that this PCN has been issued correctly and would be upheld on this occasion.'

Now have a choice to settle for £80 or appeal to the Environment and Traffic Adjudicator within 28 days where risk if £160 is due. Does anyone have a view on the chances of being successful with the ETA?
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Re: Kingston Council, PCN 31J – Entering and stopping in a yellow box, Kingston Road
« Reply #12 on: »
Quote from: rumple_silly on December 13, 2025, 12:35:04 pm
Unfortunately have received a reply from Kingston Council stating the representation has been rejected, upholding the original PCN. As for the two procedural improprieties (i) notice period, and (ii) vague locus the council's letter states that 'we are satisfied that this PCN has been issued correctly and would be upheld on this occasion.'

Now have a choice to settle for £80 or appeal to the Environment and Traffic Adjudicator within 28 days where risk if £160 is due. Does anyone have a view on the chances of being successful with the ETA?
Yes: fight it and I will assist free of charge. I'll PM you my details. Can we see the NOR? And what you wrote?
« Last Edit: December 13, 2025, 01:35:58 pm by Hippocrates »
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IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r
Re: Kingston Council, PCN 31J – Entering and stopping in a yellow box, Kingston Road
« Reply #13 on: »
Thanks Hippo. Will PM you the NOR later today. 
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Re: Kingston Council, PCN 31J – Entering and stopping in a yellow box, Kingston Road
« Reply #14 on: »
Quote from: Hippocrates on December 13, 2025, 01:32:35 pm
Quote from: rumple_silly on December 13, 2025, 12:35:04 pm
Unfortunately have received a reply from Kingston Council stating the representation has been rejected, upholding the original PCN. As for the two procedural improprieties (i) notice period, and (ii) vague locus the council's letter states that 'we are satisfied that this PCN has been issued correctly and would be upheld on this occasion.'

Now have a choice to settle for £80 or appeal to the Environment and Traffic Adjudicator within 28 days where risk if £160 is due. Does anyone have a view on the chances of being successful with the ETA?
Yes: fight it and I will assist free of charge. I'll PM you my details. Can we see the NOR? And what you wrote?

Hippo, I have DM'd you what I wrote, and a scan of the NOR. Thanks
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