Author Topic: Kingston 12s Parked without valid virtual permit - Used wrong vehicle in Ringgo  (Read 2383 times)

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@968t what is happening as it still shows £110
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

Hi Hippocrates, I am currently waiting on my appeal, we have a date but it has not happened yet.

I will update once this has gone through.


All clear now.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2024, 06:42:40 pm by Hippocrates »
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

Well Teresa Brennan has changed her mind unfortunately, outcome here.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

@cp8759The learned Michael Lawrence always stuck by his decisions for the sake of consistency. This decision hardly inspires confidence in the Tribunal. Serendipity. Review? Time to create a stink as far as Tommy Poirot is concerned. How can it be right that when you type in the correct grounds and it comes up with "unavailable"? This is a shambles.

Which are the days when she doesn't sit?  >:(
« Last Edit: September 15, 2024, 11:43:14 am by Hippocrates »
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

OP, based upon this decision alone I would consider an application for review.

It is known, or should be known, that the complexity and clarity of the grounds
which apply to shared use permit and payment bays(code 12) is not a silver bullet argument at adjudication. I put it this way because the code is NOT IMO part of the grounds, it is an administrative measure included within PCNs by authorities. IMO, a correct reading of the law in this regard should give the list of grounds followed by a code, not a code followed by grounds: the law is only interested in grounds. It's not done this way because numerical order looks neater and computers find it easier to manage.

So, IMO code 12 and 's' should be ignored when assessing whether the grounds convey the contravention with sufficient clarity. Having said this, the approved grounds don't include the words '(shared use bay)' but where London Councils' Contravention Codes include a suffix it always includes a written description e.g. 'General Suffixes ..s) shared use bay''.

But this omission wasn't put to the authority in formal reps*.

But I would focus on this part of the decision:

'The Regulations state that....the NTO should include the address of any website where representations may be submitted online. The Notice to Owner includes the Council's website address. The Regulations do not refer to what information a council should provide on their websites.'

Give us a break!

Is the adjudicator seriously suggesting that the requirement that 'a website where representations may be submitted' may exclude whatever grounds the council decide and yet still satisfy the requirement that representations may be submitted! FFS.

*- I'm not in favour of 'ambushing' authorities at adjudication with arguments that could and IMO should have been put to them in formal reps but which were deliberately omitted in order to test a point only directly with an adjudicator when it would be virtually certain that the authority would not be represented. 

But this view is not unanimous?
« Last Edit: September 15, 2024, 01:29:25 pm by H C Andersen »

I am not privy to what was submitted of course. But, in this case they did retreat and I have asked why:

https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/code-27-royal-borough-of-kingston-upon-thames/msg33605/#msg33605

I would ask for a review but that is up to cp8759 and the OP.
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

I referred to the written decision because IMO there's no need to go further.

The adjudicator accepted in that decision that the list of representation grounds on the website was incomplete. She cited one, but IMO it makes no difference how many e.g. 1 or all but 1, incomplete is incomplete.