Author Topic: Barnet - 27 PCN for Slightly Overhanging Driveway Dropped Kerb.  (Read 98 times)

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Londoner

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My wife received this PCN for having parked hanging over a dropped kerb by about 20cm adjacent to someone's driveway.The driveway is quite a wide one and there was still plenty room for a car to comfortably drive in and out of it, so my car was definitely not blocking access.

I've included all relevant images including one taken by my wife showing unobstructed access to the driveway.
I note that none of the pictures taken by the CEO actually show what is adjacent to the dropped kerb. Would I be right in saying there is therefore no evidence I was blocking something. Or is it always forbidden to park at a dropped kerb, even if there's (in theory) a brick wall adjacent to it?

Your guidance is greatly appreciated!
















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John U.K.

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Re: Barnet - 27 PCN for Slightly Overhanging Driveway Dropped Kerb.
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2024, 05:28:35 pm »
Please to post a GSV link to the location.

From the photograph you put up it appears that the kerb has not been dropped to meet the level of the roadway, which is the test.

Londoner

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Re: Barnet - 27 PCN for Slightly Overhanging Driveway Dropped Kerb.
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2024, 06:10:12 pm »
Please to post a GSV link to the location.

From the photograph you put up it appears that the kerb has not been dropped to meet the level of the roadway, which is the test.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/kxYHH6YwpWr8S4B67

Incandescent

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Re: Barnet - 27 PCN for Slightly Overhanging Driveway Dropped Kerb.
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2024, 09:11:24 pm »
If you look at the light coloured paving stones on both GSV and the photo, it is clear the rear of the car is in the dropped section for the house. That's my view, anyway.

John U.K.

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Re: Barnet - 27 PCN for Slightly Overhanging Driveway Dropped Kerb.
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2024, 09:34:48 pm »
If you look at the light coloured paving stones on both GSV and the photo, it is clear the rear of the car is in the dropped section for the house. That's my view, anyway.

I fear that 2008 GSV https://maps.app.goo.gl/ub8tUsPMjYuxbE4d7

showing the sloping kerb at the other end would seem to confirm that a DK is intended. and the probability that the very slight upstand above the gutter stone would be adjudged de minimis.

cp8759

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Re: Barnet - 27 PCN for Slightly Overhanging Driveway Dropped Kerb.
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2024, 06:42:13 pm »
Do you know the owner of the drive? The only way out of this would be a letter from the occupier confirming their consent for you to park there.

Alternatively, you'd have to use the strategy of last resort, but that would require you to have some mitigation you can advance.
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative councillor, this means some people think I am "scum". I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
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Londoner

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Re: Barnet - 27 PCN for Slightly Overhanging Driveway Dropped Kerb.
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2024, 10:55:27 pm »
Do you know the owner of the drive? The only way out of this would be a letter from the occupier confirming their consent for you to park there.

Alternatively, you'd have to use the strategy of last resort, but that would require you to have some mitigation you can advance.


To answer your question, I do not know the drive owner. I do however know that it is a recently moved in tenant that called the council to report my car “blocking” their driveway.

I appealed on the grounds that my car wasn’t actually blocking access to anything and that the council’s images do not prove it was. Unsurprisingly the council have rejected my appeal.

My question is, specifically, can I use that as a valid grounds for appeal for my formal representations, as from the council's images I do not see how they can prove I was actually parked adjacent to a footway/driveway etc.?
« Last Edit: May 16, 2024, 10:57:50 pm by Londoner »

mrmustard

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Re: Barnet - 27 PCN for Slightly Overhanging Driveway Dropped Kerb.
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2024, 08:09:50 am »


OP, you gambled and I think you lost although it is absolutely your right to challenge the council and then go to the tribunal but I think an adjudicator will find there is a dropped kerb despite the small surface level differemce.

The resident has a sign on the wall saying 'No parking' which was a clue that they are protective of their right to access. There was also a faded white lione painted across the gap, it has no statutory power but again it is a clue that the resident has paid for the line as he/she wants unfettered access. You made their life more difficult and the road less safe by your actions.

I try not to park within even a metre of the taper kerb to give residents a bit more swinging and safety room.
I help you pro bono (for free). I only ask that a donation is made to the North London Hospice if you can afford it and if you win. I have an 85% success rate across 2,000 PCNs but some PCNs can't be beaten and I will tell you if your case looks hopeless.

Londoner

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Re: Barnet - 27 PCN for Slightly Overhanging Driveway Dropped Kerb.
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2024, 04:52:56 pm »


OP, you gambled and I think you lost although it is absolutely your right to challenge the council and then go to the tribunal but I think an adjudicator will find there is a dropped kerb despite the small surface level differemce.

The resident has a sign on the wall saying 'No parking' which was a clue that they are protective of their right to access. There was also a faded white lione painted across the gap, it has no statutory power but again it is a clue that the resident has paid for the line as he/she wants unfettered access. You made their life more difficult and the road less safe by your actions.

I try not to park within even a metre of the taper kerb to give residents a bit more swinging and safety room.

Thanks for replying.

Respectfully, I know what my rights are. My question was if the council have sufficient evidence to prove I was blocking access to a driveway as alleged or, more importantly, is it illegal to park at a dropped kerb that isn't blocking access i.e. across from say a brick wall? (Both questions I asked in my initial post but went unanswered)

The image above is from GSV and outdated. There is now a wooden fence there and I was therefore not blocking access, hence my above train of thought...

mrmustard

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Re: Barnet - 27 PCN for Slightly Overhanging Driveway Dropped Kerb.
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2024, 05:00:16 pm »
It is the back of the car which was in contravention. The adjudicator will probably look at google street view and in addition the council won't enforce a householder request if there isn't a dropped kerb for vehicle access. The council can easily get a photo of the scene which will be reasonably contemperaneous and accepted as evidence. I don't mind if you want to fight, it is your money you are gambling with.

The point about dropped kerbs is the reason for which they were dropped at the time so if it was for a garage which has been bricked up then technically the car was in contravention but in practive adjudicators will mostly take a purposive approach and not uphold the PCN. If however you don't come across well they may uphold the original purpose and not cancel.
I help you pro bono (for free). I only ask that a donation is made to the North London Hospice if you can afford it and if you win. I have an 85% success rate across 2,000 PCNs but some PCNs can't be beaten and I will tell you if your case looks hopeless.