3. Hounslow Council PCN for parking half on the curb and half on the road
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Re: Hounslow Council PCN for parking half on the curb and half on the road
« Reply #45 on: »
@Sonu rocks have you made representations?

Please stop using https://imgbb.com/ as the photos self-destruct, use imgur.com instead
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Hounslow Council PCN for parking half on the curb and half on the road
« Reply #46 on: »
Hi cp8759,

Yes, did send the appeal.
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Re: Hounslow Council PCN for parking half on the curb and half on the road
« Reply #47 on: »
Quote from: Sonu rocks on March 27, 2024, 03:15:49 pm
Hi cp8759,

Yes, did send the appeal.
@Sonu rocks talk of an appeal is premature, I think you must mean you sent a representation to the council? If so please let us know when you get a response and please tag me in your reply on here.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Hounslow Council PCN for parking half on the curb and half on the road
« Reply #48 on: »
Hello again,

Please find attached the rejection letter from the council.

@cp8759

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« Last Edit: May 01, 2024, 10:51:20 am by Sonu rocks »
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Re: Hounslow Council PCN for parking half on the curb and half on the road
« Reply #49 on: »
@Sonu rocks I'm guessing the representation was received by the council more than 14 days from when they issued the NTO. As the discount has not been reoffered you might as well appeal, as you have nothing to lose now.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Hounslow Council PCN for parking half on the curb and half on the road
« Reply #50 on: »
Thank you!

Please can someone help on what will be the grounds of appeal?
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Re: Hounslow Council PCN for parking half on the curb and half on the road
« Reply #51 on: »
Quote from: Sonu rocks on May 01, 2024, 11:48:00 am
Thank you!

Please can someone help on what will be the grounds of appeal?
@Sonu rocks I have dropped you a PM in case you want to be represented. If you'd rather go it alone just register the appeal with "I rely on my formal representations" and make sure to request a hearing.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Hounslow Council PCN for parking half on the curb and half on the road
« Reply #52 on: »
Thanks. Are there any further grounds based on the rejection letter or any other suggestions?
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Re: Hounslow Council PCN for parking half on the curb and half on the road
« Reply #53 on: »
Quote from: Sonu rocks on May 06, 2024, 11:57:13 pm
Thanks. Are there any further grounds based on the rejection letter or any other suggestions?
Well the first step is to wait and see if the council contests the appeal, there is no reason to show your hand early. If the council contests the case we can look at the evidence pack and see how many holes we can pick in it.

Many people come on here with this bizarre idea that they need to put in strong appeal, that's nonsense: showing your hand early just gives the council an opportunity to formulate a rebuttal in the evidence pack, you don't want to give them that chance.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Hounslow Council PCN for parking half on the curb and half on the road
« Reply #54 on: »
Thank you.

Please elaborate on ''Well the first step is to wait and see if the council contests the appeal''. The driver's understanding is that
the next step is to appeal to the London Tribunal and guessing this is the last chance the driver has to represent and after this, there will be the judgement given by the London Tribunal. Please correct if the driver's understanding is wrong.
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Re: Hounslow Council PCN for parking half on the curb and half on the road
« Reply #55 on: »
Hello again,

Please look at the pictures and videos below and let us know if the representation below makes any sense.


https://imgur.com/a/uBdG3X0

https://www.canva.com/design/DAGFwXqdM5k/yo6KmYBHyx2B0emD2xZnjQ/edit?utm_content=DAGFwXqdM5k&utm_campaign=designshare&utm_medium=link2&utm_source=sharebutton

https://www.canva.com/design/DAGFw336UvA/5lkNrTvNBMpJnw6YDh2cEA/edit?utm_content=DAGFw336UvA&utm_campaign=designshare&utm_medium=link2&utm_source=sharebutton


The council has given reason that ''parking on the footway can cause an obstruction to pedestrians and damage to the pathway''. Please see the pictures, the footway doesn't go anywhere and is blocked by the parked cars (with the council's permission) so no pedestrians will pass from there and if they have been given permission to park on the footpath ahead (this is more dangerous than anything as the street ahead is very narrow with parking both sides and no space left for the pedestrian/ residents to walk) then they too are prone to get damaged. So the given reasons are contradictory and do not make any sense.

The Carpark opposite is open 24 hours a day and if the council doesn't allow the parking on footway then please refer to the 1st picture where the road is blocked by the white and a black car, and if, the current setup of the council rules in the area is to be followed then they are not fit for purpose as this could be dangerous for the drivers as well as the pedestrian living in the area. the footway where the contravention happened (allegedly) is more than double the size of the pathway ahead (please see pictures)
That is the reason why the driver parked half on the road and half on the pathway to allow more space for the other cars to pass. Therefore, it is a humble request to look into this matter cautiously and revise the traffic management order in the area as the area needs re-inspection and reconsideration of all the factors mention above.
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Re: Hounslow Council PCN for parking half on the curb and half on the road
« Reply #56 on: »
Hi all,

Any help would be much appreciated. the 28-day deadline is finishing soon. Please advise if anyone has any. Thanks
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Re: Hounslow Council PCN for parking half on the curb and half on the road
« Reply #57 on: »
Please help!
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Re: Hounslow Council PCN for parking half on the curb and half on the road
« Reply #58 on: »
This is like a recent Barnet PCN.

See the sign at Item 14 in the Part 2 sign table: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/7/made

(these can be seen in the parking places) 

What do they mean?

As regards the regs they mean: Vehicles may be parked partially on the verge or footway during the period indicated

BUT these are area signs i.e. they act as gateway signs and indicate either beginning and direction of the area in which the relief applies or, without arrows, may be used as repeater signs within such an area. 

They ARE NOT to be used in parking places which have their own signs:

Item 3, Part 4 Sign Table: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/4/made

So, what the hell should a driver infer from the sign immediately behind where you were?

There aren't any 'Marked Bays' which delineate areas where the London-wide footway parking prohibition has been disapplied. Instead, there are parking places designated under RTRA and partly placed on the footway. Chalk and cheese.

The idiots at the council don't know the correct traffic signs, but what's new.

So, the parking places are marked improperly. But how could that help you because you were not parked within a parking place?


You were parked on the footway where prima facie you were neither permitted by virtue of a resolution nor because you were within a parking place partly placed on the footway. For good measure you were also on DYL.

Nothing you have put forward so far is anything but mitigation IMO.

But you might as well appeal because the discount isn't on offer.

I suggest 'I rely on my representations' and then wait for their evidence pack which you would scrutinise to see how the council has approved parking on the footway in the parking places.

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Re: Hounslow Council PCN for parking half on the curb and half on the road
« Reply #59 on: »
Quote from: Sonu rocks on May 16, 2024, 12:28:01 pm
Please elaborate on ''Well the first step is to wait and see if the council contests the appeal''. The driver's understanding is that
the next step is to appeal to the London Tribunal and guessing this is the last chance the driver has to represent and after this, there will be the judgement given by the London Tribunal. Please correct if the driver's understanding is wrong.
@Sonu rocks this is completely wrong. The next step is to register the appeal, this can be done by simply saying "I rely on my formal representations". A hearing must be requested (never go for a postal decision, you can change the hearing from face to face to telephone later on), and then you wait and see if the council contests the appeal.

If the council doesn't contest the appeal, you win by default and that's the end of that.

If the council does contest the appeal, the burden of proof is on the council to show that a contravention occurred (you might have heard of the "presumption of innocence"), so at that point we can look at the council's evidence and see how many hole we can poke in their case. At that point the driver or their representative can submit evidence in response.

Then there's a hearing

Then the tribunal gives judgment.

I did offer to run the tribunal appeal for you, but if you want to do everything yourself you'll have to do most of the heavy lifting yourself.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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