Author Topic: Hounslow Council PCN for parking half on the curb and half on the road  (Read 3217 times)

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Re: Hounslow Council PCN for parking half on the curb and half on the road
« Reply #1 on: »
It is a narrow street please click on the below.

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4672093,-0....i8192?entry=ttu


The car was parked not very far from the sign where it says 'Parked in the marked bays' which means half on the curb and half on the road. This is due to lack of space on a narrow street.

The car was parked after the opertional hours of double yellow.

Also, If the car was parked normally then it could have obstruct the vehicle coming from oppsite underground parking.

Do I have any other grounds of appeal?

Re: Hounslow Council PCN for parking half on the curb and half on the road
« Reply #2 on: »
https://maps.app.goo.gl/bdiHXLccxqa1rgtg9

(You copied across a broken link from PPP.)

I could find no Double Yellow lines, only single, governed by this sign
https://maps.app.goo.gl/V8wtLeNrDLSoZpib9
From your photo

it would appear that since GSV the SYL has ben turned ibto DYL but no one has removed the sign.
DYL operate 24/7

Pavement marked bays are governed by this sign
https://maps.app.goo.gl/xfxAoBqSB8R9r9HD6

Your PCN

is for footpath parking, which this CEO photo shows


In it, you are parked on the yellow line before the footpath permitted parking begins at the signpost.

You will need the TRO for Upton Road disallowing the ban on footway parking. It may be that they have disallowed the ban for the whole road, rather than the marked stretch, in which case you are in the clear.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2023, 09:50:38 am by John U.K. »

Re: Hounslow Council PCN for parking half on the curb and half on the road
« Reply #3 on: »
Shame that the CEO didn't go for the DYL restriction, that would be easier to argue given the left over timed restriction sign.

As it is, that the footway parking sign specifies in marked bays and you weren't in one, lots more difficult.

As John says, there will/should be a resolution that disallows the footway parking ban (general across London) and specifies where you can park on footway.
Given the sign, I suspect that it will specify in marked bays but where those bays should be and whether the council can actually come up with it is another question.

Re: Hounslow Council PCN for parking half on the curb and half on the road
« Reply #4 on: »
in your PPP thread you mentioned not wanting to hinder access to the underground  car park opposite. unfortunately that argument is an irrelevance. that's certainly why the DYLs have been installed.
Quote from: andy_foster
Mick, you are a very, very bad man

Re: Hounslow Council PCN for parking half on the curb and half on the road
« Reply #5 on: »
What is TRO and how/where can it be found?

What else could be the grounds of appeal?

Re: Hounslow Council PCN for parking half on the curb and half on the road
« Reply #6 on: »
With respect and I understand where the comment came from but IMO the TRO(TMO in London) is not applicable.

The footway parking prohibition may be disapplied by an 'Act, order or resolution'. A TMO would create waiting restrictions e.g. DYL etc. or parking places. 'Marked bays' in the context of the footway parking signs are not parking places. If a council wants to allow parking on the footway then it may create parking places wholly or partly on the footway(for which there are specific traffic signs) or pass a resolution to permit parking on the footway, again wholly or partly. But a TMO should not permit parking on the footway where there isn't a parking restriction and obviously cannot for a waiting restriction because this in itself prohibits waiting whether on the footway or not, and I don't think that this is within its scope under RTRA.

So, IMO you should be requesting the 'order or resolution' passed by the council which disapplies the provisions of the 1974 Act in ** Road.



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Re: Hounslow Council PCN for parking half on the curb and half on the road
« Reply #7 on: »
What is TRO and how/where can it be found?
I've requested the footway parking resolution, as HCA says the TMO is largely irrelevant in footway parking cases. In the meantime you should make a plea for discretion on 9 November to buy as much time as possible. It could take till the end of November for me to get a response from the council. Is there any meaningful mitigation you could put forwards?
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: Hounslow Council PCN for parking half on the curb and half on the road
« Reply #8 on: »
Sorry but I am completely lost here. Please help me as to what should be written to the Council.

Re: Hounslow Council PCN for parking half on the curb and half on the road
« Reply #9 on: »
Thank you all.

What is the full form of IMO please?

What could be meaningful mitigation that council will consider please?
« Last Edit: October 31, 2023, 12:22:23 pm by Sonu rocks »

Re: Hounslow Council PCN for parking half on the curb and half on the road
« Reply #10 on: »
What is the full form of IMO please?
It stands for In My Opinion

What could be meaningful mitigation that council will consider please?
Your cat got run over, your nan died, you've just lost your job, you've been severly ill or have been diagnosed with a terminal illness, you're a victim of domestic violence, you've recently been a victim of crime, you're recently had an accident / sustained a personal injury, your nephew was recently murdered, the list is endless.

Obviously those are hypothetical examples, you can't make something up (lying in representations is a criminal offence), so you can only put forward mitigation that is true and actually applies to you. If you don't have any mitigation then you don't have it so you'll have to do without.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: Hounslow Council PCN for parking half on the curb and half on the road
« Reply #11 on: »
What is TRO and how/where can it be found?
I've requested the footway parking resolution, as HCA says the TMO is largely irrelevant in footway parking cases. In the meantime you should make a plea for discretion on 9 November to buy as much time as possible. It could take till the end of November for me to get a response from the council. Is there any meaningful mitigation you could put forwards?

Sorry my acronyms are not upto the mark.
What is the full form of TMO and HCA please?

And please could this be elaborate as to how we are sure that 'order or resolution' passed by the council will disapplies the provisions of the 1974 Act in ** Road?
« Last Edit: November 02, 2023, 11:46:05 pm by Sonu rocks »

Re: Hounslow Council PCN for parking half on the curb and half on the road
« Reply #12 on: »
TMO = Traffic Management  Order
HCA = H C Anderson one of the members trying to help you  ::)
Quote from: andy_foster
Mick, you are a very, very bad man

Re: Hounslow Council PCN for parking half on the curb and half on the road
« Reply #13 on: »

And please could this be elaborate as to how we are sure that 'order or resolution' passed by the council will disapplies the provisions of the 1974 Act in ** Road?

If footway parking is allowed to some extent - which it must be because of the signs - there has to be resolution disallowing the act.

When cp8789 has obtained it that will define the extent of allowable footway parking.


Re: Hounslow Council PCN for parking half on the curb and half on the road
« Reply #14 on: »
Thank you all!

What will be the grounds even if the the order has been produced.

Can the driver also request the council for the order and appeal at the same time to say that there is an underground car parking opposite to the DYLs, the space is very narrow and the chances of hitting the parked car if not parked on the pathway. Also, the pathway where the lines are drawn is very smaller compare to the pathway where the allegedly contravention happened.

Pathway is where a pedestrain can walk safely and if the safety has been compromised by leaving very narrow space where the houses are and the pedestrain footfall is high there then it doesn't make sense to allow PCN where there is a lot of space on the footpath just behind the marked spaces where there is a car park just opposite where a car coming from the opposite direction cannot turn. So technically either the restriction of DYLs should be removed or they should allow the parking on the curb. As this is a common sense for any driver and there are a lot of drivers who parks their car in the same way as the driver has parked.