3. Hounslow Council PCN - Cecil road
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Hounslow Council PCN - Cecil road
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Hello,

The driver had parked as the child was feeling ill and wanted to throw up. The driver exited the car to see if her child had thrown up and to provide some water. In the meantime, the parking attendant (very trickily whilst looking elsewhere) took the pictures and he was in such a rush to take the pictures that he had not filled the column on the PCN where he had to mention the colour of the car. The pictures he took are very blurred (even the number plate is not clear) showing the intention and cruelty of the parking warden. The warden did not want to listen to anything when spoken to.

Please see photos:

https://ibb.co/8MMWZNt
https://ibb.co/zRB1CC6
https://ibb.co/CPfgdd3
https://ibb.co/hXVqbBK
https://ibb.co/7SkW066
https://ibb.co/pZx8c49
https://ibb.co/vZNGst8

Thank you in advance.
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Re: Hounslow Council PCN - Cecil road
« Reply #1 on: »
unfortunately pavement parking in London is prohibited generally except where specifically allowed - no observation time is needed and what you describe are mitigating circumstances which won't stand at tribunal stage

Worth writing informal challenge to the council in the discount window of course

lets see if someone here can find technical issues

Plz post both sides of PCN
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Re: Hounslow Council PCN - Cecil road
« Reply #2 on: »
Thank you. Below is the 2nd part of the PCN.

https://ibb.co/nrMh8tY

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Re: Hounslow Council PCN - Cecil road
« Reply #3 on: »
So basically there is no courtesy from the warden's side to ask the driver to leave as the car was manned?
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Re: Hounslow Council PCN - Cecil road
« Reply #4 on: »
Quote from: Sonu rocks on March 14, 2024, 09:15:13 am
So basically there is no courtesy from the warden's side to ask the driver to leave as the car was manned?
Courtesy ?  That disappeared 30 years ago when councils realised they had been given a Magic Money Tree ! Parking enforcement now concentrates 95% on getting the money in, with traffic management 5%. Back in the day, when we had Traffic Wardens who came under police control, you'd have been asked to move on, no doubt about it. The key difference then was that all parking fines went to the government, the police did not receive any of the fines money.
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Re: Hounslow Council PCN - Cecil road
« Reply #5 on: »
So I have no grounds apart from paying the pcn?
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Re: Hounslow Council PCN - Cecil road
« Reply #6 on: »
Quote
So I have no grounds apart from paying the pcn?
Well, you don't seem to have any of the statutory grounds for PCN cancellation, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't submit representations to the council. These would be based on your narrative in your first post. They will inevitably refuse these, but may make a fatal error in their response that then gives you grounds for cancellation. One of the statutory grounds is "procedural impropriety", meaning they have not followed the enforcement procedure laid down in the Act and its associated regulations.

So I would submit reps. If you submit these within the discount period they will re-offer it.
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Re: Hounslow Council PCN - Cecil road
« Reply #7 on: »
Thank you. I have appealed so let's wait for their response.
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Re: Hounslow Council PCN - Cecil road
« Reply #8 on: »
Quote from: Sonu rocks on March 15, 2024, 12:10:54 pm
Thank you. I have appealed so let's wait for their response.

I would add this supplementary point to test their response:

The wording of the PCN in terms of the 28 days period is wrong since it does not comply with Schedule 2 para. 2 @  https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2022/71/schedule/2

(d)that the penalty charge must be paid within the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which the alleged contravention occurred,

In light of this procedural impropriety please cancel the PCN.

*******

PM sent.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2024, 12:24:18 pm by Hippocrates »
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IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r
Re: Hounslow Council PCN - Cecil road
« Reply #9 on: »
@Sonu rocks please show us exactly what you sent, and any response you get from the council.

Do not give up and pay if they reject, there is an exemption in section 15(3)(b) of the Greater London Council (General Powers) Act 1974 for (my emphasis):

the purpose of saving life or extinguishing a fire or meeting any other emergency

If a child is ill and vomiting that's enough of an emergency to cause most drivers to stop and render assistance, or so I would have thought.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Hounslow Council PCN - Cecil road
« Reply #10 on: »
The appeal was as per below:

''The driver had parked as the child was feeling ill and wanted to throw up. The driver exited the car to see if her child had thrown up and to provide some water. In the meantime, the parking attendant (very trickily whilst looking elsewhere) took the pictures and he was in such a rush to take the pictures that he had not filled the column on the PCN where he had to mention the colour of the car. The pictures he took are very blurred (even the number plate is not clear) showing the intention and cruelty of the parking warden. The warden did not want to listen to anything when spoken to''.


Please see below the rejection from the council

https://ibb.co/1szj9jg
https://ibb.co/pwF0SRv
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Re: Hounslow Council PCN - Cecil road
« Reply #11 on: »
It's the usual Fob-Off letter sent out in response to 99% of informal challenges, (probaably 100% !!), that totally ignores your representations. If it were me I'd follow 'cp8759's advice.
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Re: Hounslow Council PCN - Cecil road
« Reply #12 on: »
IMO, nothing in what you've said comes near 'an emergency' within the meaning of the Act, plus of course there's no independent evidence in support. In any event you could have pulled in to the side of the road. I would not risk the discount on this point but you can put it to the council and if you do I suggest you strip out the emotion and simply concentrate on the facts. In which respect what does 'The warden did not want to listen to anything when spoken to' mean?

Did the driver speak to the CEO? Where did this take place? Did the driver show the CEO their child and try to explain? What did the CEO say? How was the PCN served e.g. by hand to the driver or on the vehicle? If this took place at the vehicle, then the CEO must have noticed the child etc..
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Re: Hounslow Council PCN - Cecil road
« Reply #13 on: »
Quote from: H C Andersen on March 26, 2024, 11:33:55 am
IMO, nothing in what you've said comes near 'an emergency' within the meaning of the Act, plus of course there's no independent evidence in support. In any event you could have pulled in to the side of the road. I would not risk the discount on this point but you can put it to the council and if you do I suggest you strip out the emotion and simply concentrate on the facts. In which respect what does 'The warden did not want to listen to anything when spoken to' mean?

Did the driver speak to the CEO? Where did this take place? Did the driver show the CEO their child and try to explain? What did the CEO say? How was the PCN served e.g. by hand to the driver or on the vehicle? If this took place at the vehicle, then the CEO must have noticed the child etc..

The driver spoke with the CEO but he sneakily took pictures of the car and he saw the child sitting in the back. CEO quickly printed the ticket and placed it on the windscreen. CEO did this job within couple of minutes and left.
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Re: Hounslow Council PCN - Cecil road
« Reply #14 on: »
What a nonsense rejection, I'd definitely wait for the notice to owner.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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