Author Topic: Hounslow. Code 23. Parked wrong class vehicle. London Apprentice, TW76BG  (Read 964 times)

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Hi, please see folder for PCN and rejection of appeal images. I can’t find the appeal letter on my PCN file but it was to the point that the offence was outside of restricted hours.

Location is the first bay outside of the London Apprentice pub, TW76BG - sorry not sure how to link to google maps.

Thanks in advance

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1dfWnvbzwMVnWKKa32xU2dU93Lo3jWnEd

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So here is the bay you parked-in, clearly intended for the brewers "dray" to deliver the beer !
https://maps.app.goo.gl/nBiuXJRAUeknmewm8
However, I have to say the way it is marked out is most unusual, and indeed open to question, in my opinion. The photos on their rejection letter, show you as only partially in the bay, and the unusual markings would not, in my opinion, point you to the need to look for a bay restrictions sign, which is mounted in a low position and is not at all prominent.

So the question is - are you prepared to stand your ground and take them all the way to London Tribunals ? If you do this it would be a double-or-quits gamble in that the full PCN penalty would be in play. I think you stand a reasonable chance of success, but see what others say. Don't however miss any deadlines on the PCN while waiting.

Thanks Incandescent, so I was assuming it was much simpler than that, in that the bay says it is ‘enforced’ from 8am-5pm and my ticket was issued at 17.30 (observed 17.25 - 17.30)?

The rejection letter even says ‘If the rule applies some of the time only, the sign shows these times’.

Am I being completely silly and missing something very obvious here?

Thanks again

No you haven't missed anything, it is silly me for missing it !  Obviously the lateness of the hour caused me to miss the obvious ! However you didn't post your reps, so maybe that's why.

This looks like the Fob-Off letter to beat all others, where not only have they have totally ignored your representations, they haven't even bothered to look at the sign shown in their own letter of rejection, and compared it to the PCN time to the sign !

Under the enforcement process, what you have to do now is wait for the Notice to Owner and submit a formal representation, but no harm will be done by sending a second challenge to them asking them to compare the times on the sign, with the time on your PCN.
If they resist all the way to London Tribunals, you'd be justified in seeking a costs order.

Oh brilliant, I assumed either a fob off or I was missing something very obvious and happy it’s the former.

Will proceed as advised and update if they reject me at the next stage.

I actually work in the pub so if you’re ever nearby, drop me a private message with your name and the first pints on me!

Thanks again Incandescent, really appreciate your time
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This is unless an adjudicator has a brain fart a sure fired win and costs could well be awarded to you as Inc says wait for the NTO post it here and one of us will help with a draft representation and appeal if needed

Oh brilliant, I assumed either a fob off or I was missing something very obvious and happy it’s the former.

Will proceed as advised and update if they reject me at the next stage.

I actually work in the pub so if you’re ever nearby, drop me a private message with your name and the first pints on me!

Thanks again Incandescent, really appreciate your time
So if you work at the pub, you know all about the bay, and when you can part there.

Thanks Pastmybest, appreciate the offer and will update of course.

Yep Incandescent, I think I just wanted reassurance that I wasn’t being really daft about the way I interpreted sign etc because it seemed such an obvious error that I thought they would cancel it as soon as I made my first representations. I assume they just gamble that people will get scared when rejected and just pay up maybe. 

I assume they just gamble that people will get scared when rejected and just pay up maybe.
Of course they do, if the representation are wrongly rejected most people react by showering the council with cash, so they have no incentive to do their job properly.

This helpful photo from the CEO confirms the times of the restriction:



I agree that as long as the formal representation is done properly, you have a chance of getting a costs award if they're foolish enough to reject. Being hit in their pocket is the only language they understand.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order