Author Topic: Holy Island car park motorcycle bay  (Read 200 times)

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jb1978

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Holy Island car park motorcycle bay
« on: August 22, 2024, 06:19:53 pm »
Please can someone review the Northumberland council response to my appeal for parking in a motorcycle bay?  See https://drive.google.com/file/d/1soZLtzQglqf36e2qKVXpwRUAaDNnODh_/view?usp=sharing 

Is it worth challenging this any further? My intial appeal is copied below.  Thanks



Dear Sir/Madam

Subject: Penalty Charge Notice/Fixed Penalty Notice UN06222501 on 4 Aug 2024.

I write to you in respect of the above Penalty Charge Notice issued to my vehicle which was issued for the alleged reason "Parked in a car park or area not designated for that class of vehicle.

I wish to appeal it as the contravention did not occur for the following reasons:

All signs need to be clearly visible and to a prescribed criteria so motorists can make an informed decision. If a sign is obscure and unclear, it cannot be said that the car park / road was adequately signed. I therefore cannot be found guilty of the alleged contravention.

As you enter the the car park and drive into the space there is no sign visible at eye level. I have taken photos of this space from all angles. I had no idea this was a motorcycle only space and only became aware it was when I got back to the car and saw the penalty notice. A car parked directly in front of me also had a penalty notice.

The only sign is at a right angle to the space above eye level. This does not comply with signage regulations.

I request that your authority therefore provide me with details of:

The Traffic Parking Tribunal  (England and Wales)

I enclose photos to support my appeal for consideration.

I look forward to receiving confirmation that the ticket has been cancelled within 28 days.

Yours faithfully

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Incandescent

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Re: Holy Island car park motorcycle bay
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2024, 11:19:46 pm »
Hm, sign "Motorcycles Only" looks pretty clear to me, but there seems to be nothing on the ground to indicate the extent of the motorcycle area. Indeed there seem to be no bay markings at all. What makes the car to the left of yours OK, and yours not ? The plain fact is that markings are required, and their letter is tosh in this regard; a motorist must know where to park and not to park.

Please post the PCN, all sides so we can check it for fatal errors of content. This content is defined in regulations. Also a GSV view would be useful too.

jb1978

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Re: Holy Island car park motorcycle bay
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2024, 11:23:43 am »
Hi,

Unfortunately I can't find the PCN.

GSV:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@55.6750531,-1.8015961,3a,30y,71.41h,86.81t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKCf8uJYyBmMektlS0zDECA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205409&entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MDgyNi4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

As you can hopefully see from the above GSV, when I drove into the car park there was no sign in my vision or on the ground indicating the space next to the payment machines was a motorcycle only space.  The only sign is at a right angle above head height.   

The photos I took of the car park are available at:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/fbnwXgXNNDGMA5ek6

Thanks

Pastmybest

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Re: Holy Island car park motorcycle bay
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2024, 11:41:26 am »
Whilst the council are correct about the requirement for road markings they must make a sign clear. IMO this one is not. A motorbike could no doubt park anywhere in this car park as there are no bays marked out at all. I would argue along the lines that the sign in situ did not identify a place only for motor cycles but only stated the motorcycle parking was free

jb1978

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Re: Holy Island car park motorcycle bay
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2024, 04:47:41 pm »
Thanks for the advice so far.   Draft appeal below.  Do you think I have a strong case?




TRAFFIC MANAGEMENT ACT 2004
Penalty Charge Notice: UN06222501
Issue Date: 04/08/2024
Location: Chare Ends CP, Holy Island
Vehicle Registration: YP65UEC
Photos:
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipPNx8-QOkhOrlkrmQFo6UsXaiwC3Obai3TJdQzw103jYiLEB1AmwTYH65a--NgiCA?key=VE9VU1dWZTRvY2NaemNfdzFURlVoUmpqZFBxN1V3

Dear Sir/Madam

Subject: Penalty Charge Notice/Fixed Penalty Notice UN06222501 on 4 Aug 2024.

I write to you in respect of the above Penalty Charge Notice issued to my vehicle which was issued for the alleged reason "Parked in a car park or area not designated for that class of vehicle.

I wish to appeal it as the contravention did not occur for the following reasons:

All signs need to be clearly visible and to a prescribed criteria so motorists can make an informed decision. If a sign is obscure and unclear, it cannot be said that the car park / road was adequately signed. I therefore cannot be found guilty of the alleged contravention.

1.   As you enter the car park and drive into the space I parked in there is no sign visible at eye level. I have taken photos of this space from all angles. I had no idea this was a motorcycle only space and only became aware the Council considered it as such when I got back to the car and saw the penalty notice. A car parked directly in front of me also had a penalty notice.
2.   There is nothing on the main car park sign that relates to motorcycle only bays or penalties for parking in these.  I complied with all the Main conditions of use listed on the main sign so should not have been issued with a penalty. 

3.   The “Motorcycles Only” sign states:
Motor Cycles Only
Free Parking
No overnight parking/camping

This could be understood to mean that Motorcycles can park for free anywhere within the car park.  This car park does not have marked bays (see Google photos link above), and the main cark park sign states “park in orderly rows without obstructing the entrance, exit footpaths, or other parked vehicles.  I complied with these terms.  There were no bay markings or clear signage to designate that the partially paved/overgrown area I parked on was a bay restricted to the parking of only Motorcycles.

Pastmybest

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Re: Holy Island car park motorcycle bay
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2024, 02:31:24 pm »
Don't do or send anything until you receive the notice to owner then post that here and we will take a look

jb1978

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Re: Holy Island car park motorcycle bay
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2024, 07:04:00 pm »
Please see the notice to owner at https://drive.google.com/file/d/1x_gHM1vzDufRhMkc1LZcsKy8EZytnYKi/view?usp=drive_link

Advice on how to respond would be appreciated.

Thanks
« Last Edit: October 01, 2024, 10:33:35 pm by jb1978 »

John U.K.

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Re: Holy Island car park motorcycle bay
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2024, 07:16:19 pm »
You need to set the link to public...

jb1978

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Re: Holy Island car park motorcycle bay
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2024, 07:18:38 pm »
Is public now :)

Incandescent

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Re: Holy Island car park motorcycle bay
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2024, 10:04:40 pm »
Is public now :)
YOu need to blank out your name and address and re-post
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jb1978

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Re: Holy Island car park motorcycle bay
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2024, 10:50:23 am »
Please can someobody review the Notice to Owener and my draft response above?

Thanks

Incandescent

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Re: Holy Island car park motorcycle bay
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2024, 11:43:53 am »
Your draft reps looks OK to me. As you are at NtO stage the discount payment option is lost, so if they refuse your formal reps against the NtO, it is no-brainer to take them to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal. The TPT do video adjudications or just plain old telephone. They may, of course, re-offer the discount when refusing, so please post up their response when you get it.

jb1978

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Re: Holy Island car park motorcycle bay
« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2024, 01:46:39 pm »
Thank you for the help.  I will post the response when I get it.