Author Topic: Hillingdon PCN Code 62 parked on footpath, but road signs allow parking  (Read 700 times)

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pepipooper

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Re: Hillingdon PCN Code 62 parked on footpath, but road signs allow parking
« Reply #15 on: March 07, 2024, 12:09:58 pm »
So what are the next steps to appeal again? What can I say for my grounds for appeal as it seems saying the same thing will return the same response..  :(

If I appeal again and it's unsuccessful would I still have the option of paying the reduced charge?

pepipooper

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Re: Hillingdon PCN Code 62 parked on footpath, but road signs allow parking
« Reply #16 on: March 12, 2024, 12:06:57 pm »
Bumping for advice/visibility

Incandescent

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Re: Hillingdon PCN Code 62 parked on footpath, but road signs allow parking
« Reply #17 on: March 12, 2024, 01:13:33 pm »
Once the Notice to Owner is served, the discount is long gone, so if you submit formal representations, it is for the full PCN penalty. Having said that, many councils re-offer it to encourage you not to go to adjudication, where the penalty remains the same with no extra costs. Councils find it a PITA to prepare evidence packs. However there is no legal right to the discount at this stage.

pepipooper

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Re: Hillingdon PCN Code 62 parked on footpath, but road signs allow parking
« Reply #18 on: March 19, 2024, 02:04:45 pm »
Once the Notice to Owner is served, the discount is long gone, so if you submit formal representations, it is for the full PCN penalty. Having said that, many councils re-offer it to encourage you not to go to adjudication, where the penalty remains the same with no extra costs. Councils find it a PITA to prepare evidence packs. However there is no legal right to the discount at this stage.

Fair enough, makes sense.

How do I proceed with going to the adjudicator? Do I just repeat what I said in the previous appeal, even though the council keep ignoring those points?

pepipooper

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Re: Hillingdon PCN Code 62 parked on footpath, but road signs allow parking
« Reply #19 on: March 20, 2024, 09:46:51 pm »
Bumping again as I have a day or so left to submit my appeal to the adjudicator and could really use some advice.

Appreciate the help in advance.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2024, 09:56:06 pm by pepipooper »

taffer87

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Re: Hillingdon PCN Code 62 parked on footpath, but road signs allow parking
« Reply #20 on: March 20, 2024, 10:03:06 pm »
Just say

“I rely on my formal representations and will expand after review if the council evidence pack”

then plz come back here when the council evidence pack is available and post redacted copy of that here

pepipooper

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Re: Hillingdon PCN Code 62 parked on footpath, but road signs allow parking
« Reply #21 on: March 20, 2024, 10:07:15 pm »
Just say

“I rely on my formal representations and will expand after review if the council evidence pack”

then plz come back here when the council evidence pack is available and post redacted copy of that here

Is the council evidence pack different to the evidence (just photos) they already have on their own portal online?

taffer87

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Re: Hillingdon PCN Code 62 parked on footpath, but road signs allow parking
« Reply #22 on: March 21, 2024, 09:48:51 am »
Yes they will send various documents to the Tribunal - they can easily mess up in this and miss some of the required docs for eg.

They may also decide not to send an evidence pack and not contest the appeal at all

People here will give you more guidance if they know the council is contesting and has submitted an evidence pack as without that there is a fair chance there is no need for any advice at all (and if the council doesn't submit the evidence pack, you win the appeal).

Neil B

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Re: Hillingdon PCN Code 62 parked on footpath, but road signs allow parking
« Reply #23 on: March 21, 2024, 11:16:49 am »
You need to register your appeal with the Tribunal TODAY.

pepipooper

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Re: Hillingdon PCN Code 62 parked on footpath, but road signs allow parking
« Reply #24 on: March 21, 2024, 11:20:24 am »
You need to register your appeal with the Tribunal TODAY.

Yep thanks, I did it late last night. Now I just wait for them to provide evidence?

Grant Urismo

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Re: Hillingdon PCN Code 62 parked on footpath, but road signs allow parking
« Reply #25 on: March 21, 2024, 05:28:20 pm »
Yes. It's also quite possibly they will fold at this stage, producing a formal evidence pack is a fair bit of work, and has to be done by someone who knows the law, as opposed to rejecting appeals which can (as your case amply proves) be done in a slapdash but official-sounding manner by someone with no real comprehension of anything. I wouldn't be surprised if whoever does the evidence packs takes a look at your argument, realises they are on a loser here and decides to spend their time on a more winnable case.

Hippocrates

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Re: Hillingdon PCN Code 62 parked on footpath, but road signs allow parking
« Reply #26 on: March 21, 2024, 06:16:21 pm »
Keep us posted.  You never know, one of us may offer to represent you on the day.  ;)
There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply in view of some adjudicators' lack of knowing what they ought to know through no fault of their own.

"Hippocrates"

pepipooper

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Re: Hillingdon PCN Code 62 parked on footpath, but road signs allow parking
« Reply #27 on: March 25, 2024, 11:51:17 am »
Thanks everyone for the help so far. There's been some developments and I received a Charge Certificate...

I registered my appeal with the tribunal on 20/03/24
I got an email with date of hearing on 22/03 (at 1am) which also says the council has been informed
Today (25/03) I received a charge certificate increasing the penalty charge, dated 22/03 and claiming that they haven't been informed of any appeal even though the email from the tribunal clearly says they have.

I'm planning to email the tribunal to request a telephone hearing as I don't want to attend in person. What do I do about the charge certificate? Seems like the council has jumped the gun and issued this incorrectly?

I can share images of the email/charge certificate if needed but they both seem like standard things people here will have seen before.

cp8759

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Re: Hillingdon PCN Code 62 parked on footpath, but road signs allow parking
« Reply #28 on: March 31, 2024, 08:30:58 pm »
I wouldn't do anything with the charge certificate for now, I'd want to see the case audit history which we'll only get with the evidence pack. I might be able to represent you, I'll drop you a PM about that.
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative councillor, this means some people think I am "scum". I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

cp8759

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Re: Hillingdon PCN Code 62 parked on footpath, but road signs allow parking
« Reply #29 on: April 02, 2024, 11:46:25 pm »
@pepipooper to clarify, unless and until the council serves an evidence pack you don't really need to do anything, as there is no evidence of any contravention.

We do recommend checking the tribunal portal for the council evidence pack every few days, in the last week before the hearing check every day.

As an appellant you get up to two reschedules of up to 28 days each no questions asked, so if the council evidence appears less than two weeks before the hearing I'd suggest you call up the tribunal call centre and postpone the hearing by 3 / 4 weeks, so that we can help you prepare for the hearing without being in a massive rush.

If by the time of the hearing there is still no evidence from the council, you will win by default and that's the end of that.
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative councillor, this means some people think I am "scum". I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order