3. Havering PCN 31J Main road/Upper Brentwood road rm2
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Havering PCN 31J Main road/Upper Brentwood road rm2
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Good afternoon, I have just received a pcn for trying to turn right through a yellow box. As I passed through the box my exit was clear until a vehicle (EF15 NKE) switched lanes causing me to stop in the yellow box. what are my chances of winning an appeal with Havering Council?


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Re: Havering PCN 31J Main road/Upper Brentwood road rm2
« Reply #1 on: »
Do you own the car yourself, or is it hired/leased?
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Re: Havering PCN 31J Main road/Upper Brentwood road rm2
« Reply #2 on: »
I own the car.
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Re: Havering PCN 31J Main road/Upper Brentwood road rm2
« Reply #3 on: »
In that case your chances of winning are (almost) 100%. The PCN has been served on you outside the 28 days allowed in the legislation.
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Re: Havering PCN 31J Main road/Upper Brentwood road rm2
« Reply #4 on: »
The incident was the 21/06/2025
Date of Notice 18/07/2025
letter received 22/07/2025

Does the 28days count upto getting the letter?
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Re: Havering PCN 31J Main road/Upper Brentwood road rm2
« Reply #5 on: »
Service is assumed to be two business days after posting = 22 July.

Alleged offence 21 June

PCN served on day 32 (21 June is day 1)
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Re: Havering PCN 31J Main road/Upper Brentwood road rm2
« Reply #6 on: »
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/tfl-being-in-a-bus-lane-camden-road-sw-bnd-from-camden-street/msg82294/#msg82294

(1)Subject to the provisions of this section, no penalty charge notice may be served under this Act after the expiry of the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which the alleged contravention or failure to comply occurred.
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IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r
Re: Havering PCN 31J Main road/Upper Brentwood road rm2
« Reply #7 on: »
NB although the PCN is void due to missing the deadline for service, due to the way the process works you still have to submit representations to this effect and have them accepted by Havering. If you ignore it, they will win by default.

Let us know if you want some draft representation wording or if you are ok to handle it yourself.
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Re: Havering PCN 31J Main road/Upper Brentwood road rm2
« Reply #8 on: »
Also the PCN is missing mandatory information provided at 4.8 (v):

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/2003/3/section/4/enacted

(v)that, if the penalty charge is not paid before the end of the 28 day period, an increased charge may be payable;

I would not use this as I do not want them educated - yet.

****************

I suggest:

Dear Havering

You have served this PCN out of time.

Please cancel it forthwith. Should you not agree to do so and force me to go to the Tribunal, I shall without any hesitation be claiming costs.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2025, 03:48:19 pm by Hippocrates »
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IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r
Re: Havering PCN 31J Main road/Upper Brentwood road rm2
« Reply #9 on: »
Thanks for the help so far.
If I make representation for the out of time PCN should I also state about the fact the other car moved into my space preventing me from exiting the box?
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Re: Havering PCN 31J Main road/Upper Brentwood road rm2
« Reply #10 on: »
Quote from: Jamezz65 on July 23, 2025, 04:00:37 pm
Thanks for the help so far.
If I make representation for the out of time PCN should I also state about the fact the other car moved into my space preventing me from exiting the box?

No - if the PCN is out of time it is a nullity.
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Re: Havering PCN 31J Main road/Upper Brentwood road rm2
« Reply #11 on: »
If for some reason it gets that far, you can still mention the other point at a future adjudication, even if you didn't raise it now.
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Re: Havering PCN 31J Main road/Upper Brentwood road rm2
« Reply #12 on: »
Thanks for all your help.
should my representation to Havering be the short paragraph HIPPOCRATES suggested or does it need more meat on it?
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Re: Havering PCN 31J Main road/Upper Brentwood road rm2
« Reply #13 on: »
Less is more :)

The more you add, the higher likelihood Havering will just respond to the other bits and completely ignore the fact the PCN is void.
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Re: Havering PCN 31J Main road/Upper Brentwood road rm2
« Reply #14 on: »
But is an authority whose systems issued this in the first place to be relied upon to know the difference between 'issue' and 'service'?

I wouldn't risk it.

Dear Havering

You have served this PCN out of time.[for the following reason:

'...no penalty charge notice may be served under this Act after the expiry of the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which the alleged contravention or failure to comply occurred.' (S6 of London Local Authorities and Transport for London Act 2003 refers).] This PCN was served on day 32.

Please cancel it forthwith. Should you not agree to do so and force me to go to the Tribunal, I shall without any hesitation be claiming costs.

Would be my suggested change.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2025, 05:03:11 pm by H C Andersen »
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