Author Topic: Havering, Parking in a suspended bay - Branfill Road, Upminster  (Read 173 times)

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ixo

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Havering, Parking in a suspended bay - Branfill Road, Upminster
« on: February 03, 2025, 03:10:39 pm »
Penalty Charge Notice: HG20808110
Served on: 31/01/2025 09:18
Location: Branfill Road, Upminster
Council: London Borough of Havering
Contravention: Parking in a suspended bay
Vehicle Reg: FD24ZLZ

Vehicle was parked within disabled parking bay.
Blue badge was displayed (can be seen in image of car windscreen below).
As can be seen from the various images at below weblinks, notices of parking suspension were completely obscured by roadworks signs.
The parking suspension signs could not be seen from the parking space that was used.

@cp8759 Would appreciate advice on likelihood of success in appealing this penalty.

PCN_Image https://imgur.com/a/BGF9tMB
SuspensionSign_Obscured_01 https://imgur.com/a/cESNiue
SuspensionSign_Obscured_02 https://imgur.com/a/J9JZhEg
SuspensionSign_Obscured_03 https://imgur.com/a/eEmc3JD
SuspensionSign_Obscured_04 https://imgur.com/a/uer6TIw
View_of_car https://imgur.com/a/ghyDo3W
View_from_car https://imgur.com/a/gV57MA9

Google streetview link: https://maps.app.goo.gl/RNdnvESHfog4Bzac9
« Last Edit: February 03, 2025, 04:08:07 pm by ixo »

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cp8759

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Re: Havering, Parking in a suspended bay - Branfill Road, Upminster
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2025, 06:21:19 pm »
@ixo I'll get the suspension logs, but the key question is whether there was any suspension signs on the actual regulatory signs for the bays, which are these ones: https://maps.app.goo.gl/wioZhwcUj9sdcevG7

I take it all the signs are now gone?
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

ixo

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Re: Havering, Parking in a suspended bay - Branfill Road, Upminster
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2025, 08:03:14 pm »
Thanks for your reply.

On the street there are five disabled parking bays. Adjacent to these bays there are a total of four posts with regulatory signs fitted.
From the following (annotated) photo taken on the date in question, it can be seen that there is no suspension notice fitted to the post nearest to the bay in which my vehicle was parked. The next post has a suspension notice but it is almost completely hidden by the "single file traffic" roadworks sign. The next post has no suspension notice, and the final post may have a suspension notice but is certainly not visible from the position of the parking bay used.

Annotated photos of signage: https://imgur.com/a/tiIPbMg 

As far as I'm aware the signs are all gone now, the restrictions appear to have only been in place for one day

cp8759

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Re: Havering, Parking in a suspended bay - Branfill Road, Upminster
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2025, 08:22:30 pm »
It would have been better to have a photo taken from further back, as a suspicious adjudicator could wonder whether there's a suspension sign on the first post further up that just isn't visible in the photo, but I'll get hold of the photos from when the signs were put up to deal with that point.

In the meantime it would be helpful to have a short narrative about who parked (was it you), for how long, what the driver was there for and so on.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

ixo

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Re: Havering, Parking in a suspended bay - Branfill Road, Upminster
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2025, 09:09:16 pm »
I often park in the disabled bay when I visit M&S. I hadn’t been for a week, I didn’t notice the suspension notice because I was watching oncoming traffic as I approached the parking space.
I have trouble walking. So, I get out of the car and turn left, away from the suspension notice. It is a shorter walk and there is a customer lift.
I was only in the shop for a short time (I would estimate less than 20 minutes), and when I returned to my car, I saw the ticket and the warden and asked him why I had been ticketed. He told me about the suspension and said it was clearly displayed. I disagreed with him because of the traffic signs obscuring it.
He refused to rescind the ticket.

H C Andersen

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Re: Havering, Parking in a suspended bay - Branfill Road, Upminster
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2025, 09:23:29 pm »
On the street there are five disabled parking bays. Adjacent to these bays there are a total of four posts with regulatory signs fitted.

The photo (yours or the council's?) shows you were parked in the first in a line of 5 bays within a single parking place. There is no legal requirement for the council to place individual parking signs because as all the bays are within the same parking place and only a SINGLE restriction may apply and only one sign is required.

And therein lies the issue IMO. That there isn't a traffic sign in the first bay is not key except that each other bay has one. It's as if the council treat each bay as being a separate parking place. But the restrictions are the same i.e. 24/7 reserved to BB holders.

So what's your argument? In practice, as traffic signs aren't required but may be provided then your obligation was to look for the nearest applicable traffic sign, not 'turn left''. As a matter of fact, did this sign (the traffic sign immediately ahead in bay no.2) carry a suspension notice?

ixo

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Re: Havering, Parking in a suspended bay - Branfill Road, Upminster
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2025, 09:35:37 pm »
My argument, which is the one that I put to the warden at the time, is that where suspension signs had been fitted, they were obscured from view by the roadworks signs. They simply were not clearly visible.

H C Andersen

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Re: Havering, Parking in a suspended bay - Branfill Road, Upminster
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2025, 09:44:44 pm »
Your obligation upon parking is to look for the nearest applicable traffic sign. That you might have to skirt a ground-mounted sign to do so is not the issue, neither is that you couldn't see from X metres away.

Did the traffic sign mounted in bay 2 carry a suspension notice?

If yes, then your problems are significant IMO.

But if not, then you should be in the clear.

Not bothering to look and/or not seeing from where your car was parked are not solid defences IMO. The sign in evidence suspends all bays, but was this the one in bay no. 2?

ixo

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Re: Havering, Parking in a suspended bay - Branfill Road, Upminster
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2025, 09:53:08 pm »
Definitely wasn't a suspension notice on the post adjacent to bay number 2. (Annotated photo shows this post close to a square brown manhole cover in pavement).
https://imgur.com/a/tiIPbMg
Can see same manhole cover on Google street view to confirm that this is definitely the post adjacent to bay number 2

cp8759

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Re: Havering, Parking in a suspended bay - Branfill Road, Upminster
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2025, 10:11:44 pm »
@ixo I think there is a viable case but obviously you must assume the council will reject, so this will have to be taken to the tribunal.

Can you also post the back of the PCN?
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Incandescent

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Re: Havering, Parking in a suspended bay - Branfill Road, Upminster
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2025, 11:13:27 pm »
To put it simply, as a motorist, you are required to look for the sign for the bay in which you parked your car to make sure you have adhered to the conditions put on it. If the sign for your car had no suspension sign on it, then the alleged contravention did not occur.


ixo

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Re: Havering, Parking in a suspended bay - Branfill Road, Upminster
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2025, 11:43:30 pm »
Thanks all for your responses, much appreciated.
Copy of the rear of the PCN is at the following link:

https://imgur.com/a/pQBouVI


stamfordman

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Re: Havering, Parking in a suspended bay - Branfill Road, Upminster
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2025, 04:36:07 pm »
Havering has not put its pics up so contact them and ask for them to be made available.

https://havering-self.achieveservice.com/service/lbh-Parking-PCN-Online-enquiry-form

ixo

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Re: Havering, Parking in a suspended bay - Branfill Road, Upminster
« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2025, 04:44:07 pm »
Is that pictures of the signage that were put in place during the suspension, or pictures taken by the warden related to the specific PCN?
Do they need to publish the pictures on a specific web page?
I just want to make sure I'm asking them the right question. Do I need to refer to the PCN number in my request?
Would they typically respond quickly to such requests?

Thanks all

Also a bit of a concern that

stamfordman

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Re: Havering, Parking in a suspended bay - Branfill Road, Upminster
« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2025, 04:46:45 pm »
I mean the pics the CEO took when issuing the PCN. They will probably show the suspension sign they rely on which won't be by your car.