3. Havering Council - Charge notice without PCN
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Havering Council - Charge notice without PCN
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Hi All,

Just recived a Charge Notice form Havering council for a contravention, that having reviewed the evidence based after receiving this notice, I can say took place, where by I made a right turn where it was not allowed, I clearly had not noticed or seen the sign but as it stands the contravention took place, so no denying that.

Attached Letter - https://imgur.com/a/4H7Aat2

The issue is I had not received the initial PCN, Now the charge is £195 - How can I appeal this, as I genuinely had not received any letter, else I would have paid the discount rate (£65) rather then the miss this, and the full amount (£130) and opt to pay an increased rate (£195) just doesn't make sense.

Looking at the council website (https://www.havering.gov.uk/parking-2/parking-tickets-traffic-fines/2), it actually has a section for 'I have a Charge Certificate but have not had a Penalty Charge Notice' which is quite crazy, nonethless it states the following, sounds a bit duanting the thought of a recovery order.

"If you have not received a PCN but have received a Charge Certificate, please wait for an Order for Recovery to be issued that will enable you to make a Witness Statement or Statutory Declaration against the PCN on the grounds that the PCN was not received."

However their own policy below, sort of contradicts the above by saying ""Not applicable as a Regulation 10 PCN will be issued by post" on Page 19, G1.5 - https://www.havering.gov.uk/downloads/file/96/policy-for-enforcing-or-cancelling-a-pc

Await for some advice, as it'll be a shame to get penalised above and beyond for something that genuinly didn't take place.

P.S a country court order means another £10 is added :O
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Re: Havering Council - Charge notice without PCN
« Reply #1 on: »
This is an easy job provided you are proactive from this point on. 

When the council register the debt at TEC, they MUST send you an Order for Recovery. This adds on £10 to the CC amount, but allows you to submit a Statutory Declaration that the PCN was not received. The form for this is normally included with the OfR, but you can download it from the TEC website: -
https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/traffic-enforcement-centre-forms

If your post is dodgy, (as it seems to be nowadays in London especially), you need to keep checking the status of the PCN at weekly intervals, and when the amount increases by £10, you can expect the OfR but you don't have to receive it to submit the SD. All you do is download the form from TEC, fill it in, get it witnessed, (about £10) and send it off with the box for "I did not receive the PCN" ticked. Nothing else is needed, no reasons etc.

What you are doing by submitting a Statutory Declaration to TEC is telling them that you did not receive the PCN.  You are not submitting anything about the contravention itself. Once your SD is accepted, the matter reverts to the PCN stage, at which point you can either cough-up or submit representations against it.



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Re: Havering Council - Charge notice without PCN
« Reply #2 on: »
Please have a read of the READ THIS FIRST - **BEFORE POSTING YOUR CASE!** sticky post at the top of page 1 of this forum. And then correct your posted document so that the PCN number and the vehicle reg are visible. It's only necessary to redact your name & address.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2024, 02:58:34 am by Enceladus »
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Re: Havering Council - Charge notice without PCN
« Reply #3 on: »
Enceladus. Reuploaded asrequested inline with the rules -


Incandescent. I was more procrastianted then pro-active :'( although it has now been way beyond the 14 days and an additional 20 days and I have not recieved the Recovery of Order in the post, nor has the PCN increased by £10.

I assume, I still go ahead and submit the form you've said, which I believe is the PE2: Application to file a statutory declaration out of time? If yes would the following suffice, excuse the CAPs, as the form reque

"A PCN in relation to this contravention was never received by post, the first I came to know about this was when I received a charge certificate. I waited for a order of recovery as per the process to allow me to appeal, but have still not recieved this in the post, hence i have been advised to submit this form."
« Last Edit: November 20, 2024, 10:27:23 pm by LondonTraveller84 »
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Re: Havering Council - Charge notice without PCN
« Reply #4 on: »
You can only submit the SD to TEC when Havering register the debt. If you submit before they do this, TEC will just reject it as they have no record of the PCN until it is registered. SOme councils can be very slow in registering, I'm afraid. Have you phoned TEC to check ?  AS I said, you need to be proactive; you don't want to miss the time window to submit the SD in-time. Once you get out-of-time to submit, it is a whole new ball game.
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Re: Havering Council - Charge notice without PCN
« Reply #5 on: »
Nope, pro-active mode on now, I'll call them tomorrow in that case, deffinitly don't want to miss the time window to submit the SD .

As far as I know from Havering letter they would have waited 14 days then started to register it, meaning the start of this month.
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Re: Havering Council - Charge notice without PCN
« Reply #6 on: »
No. It simply means they cannot register within the 14-day period not that they will register immediately it's lapsed.
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Re: Havering Council - Charge notice without PCN
« Reply #7 on: »
We've seen weeks or even months before councils register PCNs at TEC. There is no time limit on them in the regulations, as far as I know, although there may be a limit in higher legislation.
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Re: Havering Council - Charge notice without PCN
« Reply #8 on: »
Hi All,

The PCN is still sitting at £195, looks like they have not registered it at the TEC yet, what options do I have, as i know the letter and their website says I cannot appeal or do anything until I receive the next letter.

Regards

Qamar
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Re: Havering Council - Charge notice without PCN
« Reply #9 on: »
With respect, proactive doesn't mean hyperactive!

I've given the link to the enforcement process and extracted the following:

The completed statutory declaration should be returned to the traffic enforcement centre within 21 days beginning with the date of service of the Order for Recovery, although there are provisions for the court to allow longer.

https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/understanding-enforcement-process/moving-traffic-pcn-enforcement-process

So, every 14 days is fine as in the worst case you'd still have 7 days in which to submit your SD.(actually, the Guidance Notes issued by TEC say 'within 36 days of registration'). You should bear in mind that the signing of the SD must be witnessed either by a solicitor, at a fee no doubt, or FOC at your local court. Therefore time would be well spent finding out the whereabouts of your local court, how best to contact them and the mechanics of getting a SD witnessed.

Once the form [SD] has been completed it must be sworn i.e. signed before a Commissioner for Oaths (e.g. a Solicitor), or an Officer of a County Court appointed by the Judge to take affidavits, or a Justice of the Peace (Magistrates Court). (This service is available at most County Court Hearing
Centre, free but an appointment may be necessary).......If the form has not been properly witnessed, the TEC will not be able to process it.


https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6037706ee90e070558e4299b/pe3-guidance-eng.pdf
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Re: Havering Council - Charge notice without PCN
« Reply #10 on: »
Quote from: H C Andersen on December 11, 2024, 03:46:49 pm
With respect, proactive doesn't mean hyperactive!

hehe I think I'm terrible on both fronts lol... I understand that process but as 'Incandescent' mentioned earlier that the statutory declaration cannot be submitted until the council have registered the debt, this I would know by either seeing an increase in the fine by £10 and/or receive a  Order for Recovery letter, neither of which I have recieved... hence I'm in a limbo
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Re: Havering Council - Charge notice without PCN
« Reply #11 on: »
Patience is a virtue!

You can't hurry love....or enforcement authorities!


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Re: Havering Council - Charge notice without PCN
« Reply #12 on: »
Meanwhile, screenshot their grounds page. Before they correct it!
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IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r
Re: Havering Council - Charge notice without PCN
« Reply #13 on: »
Quote from: Hippocrates on December 11, 2024, 07:47:30 pm
Meanwhile, screenshot their grounds page. Before they correct it!

You mean Havering councils, ie this following snippets,







[ Guests cannot view attachments ]
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Re: Havering Council - Charge notice without PCN
« Reply #14 on: »
Just to let you know that it has taken 6 months for Havering to send me an Order For Recovery.
I called TEC on a weekly basis as couldn't trust that I would receive the paperwork from the council or Royal Mail

It also seems that there are many people in Havering who don't receive their Charge Notices as you may have seen on FB.. 
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  3. Havering Council - Charge notice without PCN