3. Havering Bus Lane - New Road / Phillip Road RM13
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Havering Bus Lane - New Road / Phillip Road RM13
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Hi I have just received a PCN for apparantly driving in a bus lane. clearly had no idea as didn't see signs - probably moved over if the black car behind in the video was bombing up my backside!

Anyway have seen a few cases on here so wondering if there is any legit appeal grounds, especially as a note on their web site now says rejected representations no longer get the discounted rate if ( when! ) rejected.

thank you

Web code is 782RW565

https://parking.havering.gov.uk/pages/OnlineReferenceEntry.aspx?


« Last Edit: September 03, 2024, 05:36:21 pm by Dukewood »
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Re: Havering Bus Lane - New Road / Phillip Road RM13
« Reply #1 on: »
I have tried to upload PCN but getting - An Error Has Occurred!
The upload folder is full. Please try a smaller file and/or contact an administrator.

So if someone can guide me on how to resolve that it would be much appreciated. It's just one word file thanks
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Re: Havering Bus Lane - New Road / Phillip Road RM13
« Reply #2 on: »
Quote from: Dukewood on September 03, 2024, 05:08:02 pm
I have tried to upload PCN but getting - An Error Has Occurred!
The upload folder is full. Please try a smaller file and/or contact an administrator.

So if someone can guide me on how to resolve that it would be much appreciated. It's just one word file thanks
Have read of this

https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/
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Re: Havering Bus Lane - New Road / Phillip Road RM13
« Reply #3 on: »
Thank you - midly dyslexic so had missed the image thing - thanks and now hopefully sorted
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Re: Havering Bus Lane - New Road / Phillip Road RM13
« Reply #4 on: »
Do not pay this. I will advise on a draft later. There are several issues.
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I REGRET THAT, FOR THE PRESENT, I AM UNABLE TO TAKE ON ANY MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. THIS IS FOR BOTH PERSONAL AND LEGAL REASONS. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME UNLESS YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR THREAD ON THE FORUM AND I WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ADVICE.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
Re: Havering Bus Lane - New Road / Phillip Road RM13
« Reply #5 on: »
Thank you much appreciated.
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Re: Havering Bus Lane - New Road / Phillip Road RM13
« Reply #6 on: »
Herewith. You will need to use your own webcode of course:

https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/pcn-driving-in-a-bus-lane-within-restricted-period/msg33334/#msg33334

Screenshot each page as you progress.

There is an issue with the camera so let' see what they say. In the last one we won*, they did not even submit a witness statement. Or turn up.  ::)  :o  :(

Also, their website has issues.

*   https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mIvUeg3mWoWLPaoAU17gbnZr1ae9CmEy/view
« Last Edit: September 03, 2024, 08:52:55 pm by Hippocrates »
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I REGRET THAT, FOR THE PRESENT, I AM UNABLE TO TAKE ON ANY MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. THIS IS FOR BOTH PERSONAL AND LEGAL REASONS. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME UNLESS YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR THREAD ON THE FORUM AND I WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ADVICE.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
Re: Havering Bus Lane - New Road / Phillip Road RM13
« Reply #7 on: »
Quote from: Dukewood on September 03, 2024, 05:31:00 pm
Thank you - midly dyslexic so had missed the image thing - thanks and now hopefully sorted
No worries. I studied it.
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I REGRET THAT, FOR THE PRESENT, I AM UNABLE TO TAKE ON ANY MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. THIS IS FOR BOTH PERSONAL AND LEGAL REASONS. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME UNLESS YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR THREAD ON THE FORUM AND I WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ADVICE.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
Re: Havering Bus Lane - New Road / Phillip Road RM13
« Reply #8 on: »
Thank you
So just to make sure I have this correct:

First link is the suggested text for online appeal where I need to include my PCN/Reg and the web code.
The 2nd link is the tribunal appeal decision in case I have to go to appeal
Do we know this is the same camera as that case from the video or can we not be 100% sure.
And presumably there is a chance they could now have the cert or is that unlikely too?

Thank you again
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Re: Havering Bus Lane - New Road / Phillip Road RM13
« Reply #9 on: »
Quote from: Dukewood on September 03, 2024, 09:24:16 pm
Thank you
So just to make sure I have this correct:

First link is the suggested text for online appeal where I need to include my PCN/Reg and the web code.
The 2nd link is the tribunal appeal decision in case I have to go to appeal
Do we know this is the same camera as that case from the video or can we not be 100% sure.
And presumably there is a chance they could now have the cert or is that unlikely too?

Thank you again

Use the first link. I have done a FOIR re the camera - no need to mention this at this stage as they should reply to the issue raised. Keep us posted please.

TES small blue is the camera - about as helpful as a hole in a pint glass.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2024, 09:16:46 am by Hippocrates »
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I REGRET THAT, FOR THE PRESENT, I AM UNABLE TO TAKE ON ANY MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. THIS IS FOR BOTH PERSONAL AND LEGAL REASONS. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME UNLESS YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR THREAD ON THE FORUM AND I WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ADVICE.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
Re: Havering Bus Lane - New Road / Phillip Road RM13
« Reply #10 on: »
ok thanks and ofcouse I will keep you updated thanks again
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Re: Havering Bus Lane - New Road / Phillip Road RM13
« Reply #11 on: »
I am happy to represent at the Tribunal when the time comes.  ;D
Logged
I REGRET THAT, FOR THE PRESENT, I AM UNABLE TO TAKE ON ANY MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. THIS IS FOR BOTH PERSONAL AND LEGAL REASONS. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME UNLESS YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR THREAD ON THE FORUM AND I WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ADVICE.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
Re: Havering Bus Lane - New Road / Phillip Road RM13
« Reply #12 on: »
Thanks much appreciated.
So I'm guessing despite the fact they know there are in the wrong they just simply just reject the appeals and hope we cave in and pay
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Re: Havering Bus Lane - New Road / Phillip Road RM13
« Reply #13 on: »
Quote from: Dukewood on September 03, 2024, 11:05:45 pm
Thanks much appreciated.
So I'm guessing despite the fact they know there are in the wrong they just simply just reject the appeals and hope we cave in and pay
Exactly !
And you know what ? It works for them, because only about 1-2% of PCNs ever end up at the adjudicators. This is because most people know very little about the law on parking and traffic sign, and just cough-up the discounted amount. Almost all OPs we get on here are mainly worried about losing the discount option if they submit representations.
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Re: Havering Bus Lane - New Road / Phillip Road RM13
« Reply #14 on: »
Website grounds for later:

A -  The alleged Contravention did not occur
B I was not the owner of the vehicle at the time of contravention
-  I had sold the vehicle before that date
-  I had bought the vehicle after that date
-  I have never owned that vehicle
C -  The vehicle was taken without my consent
D -  We are a hire firm and have supplied details
E -  The Penalty Charge exceeds the relevant amount
F -  There has been a procedural impropriety by the Enforcement Authority
G -  The traffic order contravened is invalid
H -  The Notice should not have been served because the Penalty Charge had already been paid
I -  Other

D - G are wrong/irrelevant
« Last Edit: September 04, 2024, 11:01:01 am by Hippocrates »
Logged
I REGRET THAT, FOR THE PRESENT, I AM UNABLE TO TAKE ON ANY MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. THIS IS FOR BOTH PERSONAL AND LEGAL REASONS. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME UNLESS YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR THREAD ON THE FORUM AND I WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ADVICE.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
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