Author Topic: Harrow PCN Parked in residents bay without valid permit, BB holder, half of badge fell off dashboard  (Read 1045 times)

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Enceladus

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my other question is do i upload everything i put at formal appeal again ie the medical evidence etc or i presume they will get that from the previous uploads and the council pack?
Well in theory the Council's evidence pack should include everything you sent to them, so you shouldn't need to send the documents again. So check, have they omitted anything?

Regardless I would be inclined to include/upload all documents, unredacted, that I want to bring to the Adjudicator's attention, so I can more easily refer to them. And they can be more easily located.

I know you are not relying on a Blue Badge exemption from the parking restrictions and you are relying on the boarding / alighting exemption. Regardless I would include pictures of both sides of the Blue Badge as it lends credence to your assertion that the passenger being alighted was indeed disabled. It makes you more credible and not just making it up to get out of paying the penalty.

And I wish you good luck.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2025, 02:57:02 pm by Enceladus »

H C Andersen

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OP, as I understand the sequence of events:

Parked; failed to display BB in prescribed manner; assisted your vulnerable father to their house;
PCN issued;
You returned to retrieve shopping and noticed the PCN;

You can give this as the context.


But IMO, the defence against the PCN is assisted alighting because this is what was happening while it was being issued.

The defence of assisted alighting applies only for the time necessary to assist the person, so IMO don't introduce matters around settling him in etc. because you don't know how these might be received. By all means give this if you're asked. 

dbcc33

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Thanks both,
@Andersen I want to make a slight correction to the order of events:

Parked; failed to display BB in prescribed manner; assisted vulnerable father to their house;
Returned to retrieve the shopping (unloaded the bags from the boot, did not go to front of car)
After leaving shopping inside, returned to the car to drive off, noticed the PCN.

So actually i don't know whether the PCN was issued whilst assisted alighting or while onloading. In theory it could have been either, but looking at the time of issue, it maybe more likely it was during the latter. But in theory it could have been there when i returned for the shopping but didn't notice it.

That's why im asking whether i mention unloading or not here?

btw re settling, i mean make sure he was sat down with coat and shoes off. Not having a cuppa tea! same with shopping, unloaded the bag onto his table (not reorganising the kitchen cupboards!)- both of which were needed as he cant do himself.
But OK, i get what you're saying, don't volunteer more detail unless i get asked. that's fine.


 

Incandescent

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Everything you did was part of "assisted boarding activity". How could it be otherwise when your father is incapable of carrying the shopping, so two trips to his house are obviously necessary as part of the assistance.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2025, 12:09:14 am by Incandescent »

H C Andersen

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As per Incandescent and your order of events:

Parked;
Assisted father to house;
Returned to collect his items (from boot of car) and delivered them to his house;
Returned to car, sat in driver's seat and noticed PCN.

Do not know whether the PCN was served during the assisted boarding or delivery phases, but I submit that each was an exemption from the restriction and therefore the PCN should be cancelled.



dbcc33

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OK thanks both. Will use that plus your original wording.

dbcc33

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How about this as final version?

I was thinking of also appending the formal representation again, together with the BB and medical evidence just for completeness.

Summary of events.
Parked;
Assisted father to house;
Returned to collect his items (from boot of car) and delivered them to his house;
Returned to car, sat in driver's seat and noticed PCN.

Do not know whether the PCN was served during the assisted alighting or unloading phases, but I submit that each was an exemption from the restriction and therefore the PCN should be cancelled.

I refer the adjudicator to the council's evidence, in particular this statement:

'In order for the boarding/alighting exemption to apply, activity must be seen taking place. The Civil Enforcement Officer noted the vehicle parked and unattended.'

I also refer to the council's references to previous PCNs which, although gratuitous as regards this PCN, give ample supporting evidence that I have a disabled father whom I transport regularly and who holds a Blue Badge which, between the two of us, manages on very rare occasions to dislodge on to the seat/footwell because the demands placed upon me when assisting my father can give rise to mistakes.

On this occasion, between us we didn’t display the badge correctly and were this to be the basis of my appeal then I could not take issue with being deemed to be in technical breach of conditions.

But in this case my appeal (as regards the contravention) is based upon the exemption under the Traffic Management Order of alighting, in this case assisted alighting, which brings the council's statement above into focus. As I understand it, an exemption is an exemption. It is not mitigation or a request to exercise discretion but an exemption. I respectfully suggest that this may be exercised as and when the conditions are met. I ask the adjudicator to infer from the council's statement that they are seeking to modify its application, by misstating the position in law, rather than examining a claim to satisfy themselves that it applies. I respectfully suggest that dismissing a defence of assisted alighting without proper scrutiny of the owner's assertion is improper and would be a procedural impropriety in itself as well as, in this case, rejection of a legitimate exemption based upon a false legal premise. I find it difficult to believe that the council have applied their framework against me alone and therefore had they checked their records and other adjudication decisions I believe that it could be stated that, to use their words, 'they have been advised on a number of occasions of the necessity and importance and assessing representations against the correct legal framework'. To reiterate, the council also failed to consider the exemption both at informal and formal appeal stages.

I also suggest that this applies in respect of the procedural improprieties within the Notice of Rejection. As I understand it, the basic mandatory wording regarding the 'Duties of an Enforcement Authority as regards representations made' have remained unaltered since the Regulations were first issued in 2008, since when adjudicators have stressed to authorities the necessity and importance of conveying the meaning of these duties correctly. In my case the NOR states:
'You have 28 days from the date of this letter being served to..'
It then refers to the owner's statutory right to appeal and their power to issue a Charge Certificate under this umbrella condition.
However, the regulations stipulate that the applicable period is no later than the end of the period of 28 days beginning on the date of service, not from. I understand that adjudicators have consistently found that whether the effects of the 'extra day' are beneficial to the driver or not (and they cannot be as regards the adjudicator's power to not register appeals made late, even by one day) misstating these mandatory provisions is grounds for allowing appeals for procedural impropriety.

I respectfully ask the adjudicator to find that the contravention did not occur and that there have been procedural improprieties by the authority and therefore allow my appeal.

dbcc33

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hi all,

Wasnt sure whether to start a new thread or not but last night my car was broken into outside of my dads house specifically to steal my fathers BB!!! passenger side window smashed where bb displayed and nothing else stolen!
i dont need advice on what to do as already notified police and council BUT i was just wondering about the coincidence of uploading the BB here together with the PCN with the location and then this happening at the same time ! hopefully just a coincidence but its the first time this has ever happened and it just happened to be while i was posting here!
So i was wondering if it was possible for someone trawling these threads to identify vulnerable BB holders to target?!

Anyway, needless to say it was easier for me to arrange replacement of my smashed window than it was replacement of the BB but now im really worried about being targeted in future. ie if they had stolen valuables obviously you dont leave valuables, but with a BB, they expect you to have it on display which it seems makes you a target for burglars !!

This all tells me that actually the council should have a better process like a virtual badge or QR code that wardens can scan rather than a piece of card vulnerable to dropping off and being stolen.

I'm still reeling from this and now makes me hesitant to even display it but this leaves my father with no way of travelling whatsoever- hes now stuck and i have to postpone hospital appts because we wont be able to park close enough given with Easter the council will take forever to replace.

And btw it cost more to replace my car window than a PCN!

Is there anyone i can write to at the council to tell them that asking to display makes the car a target for criminals?!

Is this kind of crime on the rise?! I wonder what anyone could do with it given everyone reports it as stolen and i presume it gets cancelled/revoked straight away !

ugh everything to do with my car and caring for dad goes from bad to worse. it's not being disabled thats the issue. its societal treatment thats disabling!

Incandescent

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So i was wondering if it was possible for someone trawling these threads to identify vulnerable BB holders to target?!
Not on this forum unless you misguidedly showed your name and address somewhere on the thread. Car reg cannot be used to find out name and address, nor PCN Number.  However, clearly somebody of malicious intent within the council parking department can obtain your address. Other aspect, of course, is whether you have discussed this case with others you know.

dbcc33

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However, clearly somebody of malicious intent within the council parking department can obtain your address.
[/quote]

wow - that happens?!

no haven't discussed this with anyone else. and i did redact the documents but since it was able to be uploaded without redaction maybe its too easy to unredact.

dbcc33

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Ive deleted the previous link and relinked with viewing access (not editing access only) hopefully this resolves the issue
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/raiuh8ac0h0848ap9lklf/ADzsA7su5XB6-OjZJW7ir_U?rlkey=9okyxgtznin7kbvu2s1oeusn8&st=kr0v4988&dl=0

stamfordman

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So i was wondering if it was possible for someone trawling these threads to identify vulnerable BB holders to target?!
Not on this forum unless you misguidedly showed your name and address somewhere on the thread. Car reg cannot be used to find out name and address, nor PCN Number.  However, clearly somebody of malicious intent within the council parking department can obtain your address. Other aspect, of course, is whether you have discussed this case with others you know.

Actually locations where PCNs are issued are posted here - we insist on them - and they can be outside someone's house. But it's very unlikely anyone is looking here for BBs to steal. There are plenty on display in many streets.