Author Topic: Harrow PCN Parked in residents bay without valid permit, BB holder, half of badge fell off dashboard  (Read 1045 times)

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stamfordman

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Assisted alighting - safely escorting your father to home and returning to car, taking only so long as necessary. See recent adjudicated cases below on boarding but alighting is the same.

The NTO is issued at £110 but they often reoffer the discount if they reject to try and stop you taking it to the tribunal.

Buy a decent holder!

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2240406329

The CEO's images show Mrs xxxxx's car stopped on the single yellow line during the controlled hours. Mrs xxxxx appeals because she says that her husband was stopped to pick up their young child from xxxxx. The PCN was issued at 3.32pm. There was no observation period by the CEO before the PCN was issued and Mr xxxx says that he was away from the car for around 5 minutes. He says that he saw the CEO on returning to the car and explained what he had been doing. Mr xxxx tells me that his child is eight years old and must be collected from within the School premises.
I am satisfied from the evidence that Mr xxxx was picking up his child from school and that the picking up exemption therefore applies. The exemption allows a motorist to leave a vehicle where a passenger needs to be escorted or assisted as is clearly the case with young children.

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The CEO's images show that Ms xxxx's car was parked on a single yellow line and it is not disputed that this was during the controlled hours of the CPZ. There was an observation period of only 2 minutes before the PCN was issued. Ms xxxx says that she was away from the car for around 3 minutes to collect her young child from the family home. She says that she had to help her child put on his shoes and coat.
I am satisfied from the evidence that the picking up exemption applies in this case. A motorist may leave a vehicle to assist a passenger with the boarding process and this may include accompanying a person to the vehicle where this is necessary, such as in the case of a young child. I regard helping a child to put on his coat and shoes to be part of the process and not a separate activity.

H C Andersen

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OP, assisted alighting is presumably an exemption in permit bays. The passenger's frailty is only part of the argument, the rest is whether you took only as long as necessary to assist them to their destination and then return to the car to move it out of contravention.

Stamfordman's wording is succinct and addresses the required elements.


So I suggest you make the statement if you decide to continue and flesh out with something like:

As regards the passenger's need to be assisted, he is my ** year-old father who suffers from ****. I was escorting him to **** where I left him while I returned promptly to the car. (if true). It is this last part which only you can answer.

One could take the view that if you placed the BB then you intended to stay for a while, which doesn't meet the assisted alighting conditions. But this could be countered by saying that you placed the BB because this would avoid what happened in this case which is that the CEO saw the car and nothing else as you were engaged in assisting your father away from the car.


stamfordman

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Here's an assisted alighting case decided this week.

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2240372023

Reasons   At this scheduled personal hearing the Appellant attended in person but the Enforcement Authority did not attend and were not represented.
A contravention can occur if a vehicle is parked, waiting, loading or unloading in restricted street when a waiting, loading/unloading restriction is in force.
There appears to be no dispute that the vehicle was at this location, or that the Penalty Charge Notice was issued to it, as shown in the photographs/digital images produced by the Enforcement Authority.
The Appellant’s case is that is that he is a licenced private hire vehicle driver and was setting down a disabled passenger at the Premier Inn Hotel and had to assist him to the premises. The Appellant adds that when he returned, he explained this to the civil enforcement officer, who does not record this.
Picking up and setting down of passengers is permitted at this location. It should normally take no longer than two minutes but slightly longer must be allowed in the case of the elderly, disabled or very young, who may have to be escorted to nearby premises.
I have had the opportunity of hearing the Appellant personally and accept what he tells me.
Considering all the evidence before me carefully I find as a fact that, at the material time, picking up/setting down within the meaning of the exemption was taking place and thus a contravention did not occur.
Accordingly, this appeal must be allowed.

dbcc33

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Thank you both for your very helpful answers.
My case is similar to the taxi drivers in that my dad is 85 frail and disabled needing assistance (which can be medically proven).
What is the more tricky part is that I took the minimum time needed to do what i had to do which was assist my dad into the house making sure he didnt fall and into his room safely helping with coat and shoes, plus unload his shopping and then return to the car. So i suppose this case will rest on whether they consider unloading the shopping an essential assistive task or not. He needs it doing as he cant do it himself but i dont know how this will be perceived.

But thats the truth and i dont know if the 7 min observation period counts against me although the photos only show 1 min but the ticket says 7.


H C Andersen

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plus unload his shopping and then return to the car.

?

His shopping was in the car to which you returned or you took his shopping with you when helping him to the house and then distributed this within his house?

If you returned to the car to unload goods then this is a separate excepted activity.

dbcc33

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first i assisted him into the house and sat him down, then i returned to the car and unloaded this shopping from the boot and set the shopping in his house and then returned my large empty shopping bag to the boot, before getting in to drive off and that's when i noticed the pcn. ie the total time away from the car was including off loading the shopping as well as him.

H C Andersen

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I am not doubting your account, but pl recognise and somehow address in any reps - you've yet to receive a NTO- the issue of 2 separate journeys and a return to the car before a PCN had been served.

IMO, a more likely sequence of events was:

You parked and assisted your father. No CEO and no obs;
You returned to your car to collect shopping; still no CEO or obs;
CEO appears while you were unloading shopping.

dbcc33

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well this is what i dont actually know because i didnt notice (but then didnt look for) any pcn until at the end when i returned to drive off. it could have happened as you said but it could also have been there when i returned the first time but didnt see it because i only went to the boot not the front.
all i know with certainty is that is that i wasnt away from the car that long in total- so maybe few minutes each time. in hindsight i should have looked at the exact time of pcn issue as soon as i saw it, but as i was in a rush i drove off and only opened the pcn later on. so i cannot recall exact time points. Only that i dont think i took over 7 mins for each activity but doing everything, assisting alighting and offloading shopping could have in total exceeded that time.

is it not possible that the ceo observed when i was assisting dad into the house and the issued ticket when i was unloading shopping?

in any case does it matter? the question is whether or not i have a strong case for exemption or whther it is weakened by the shopping issue. fwiw i can prove he needs assistance with shopping. that was the reason i drove him back. we went to do his shopping.

 



stamfordman

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Bear in mind the context also includes blue badge entitlement. If Harrow reject formal reps I'm inclined to think an adjudicator would take this into account as bolstering the alighting exemption but as said the exemption does need careful wording to stick to no longer than necessary.

Returning to get shopping is good as that shows assistance could not involve also coping with shopping IMO. And no doubt unloading is also an exemption...

See also a case I posted - the adjudicator also considered time to get a child into their shoes and coat was OK and was part of process.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2024, 11:35:34 am by stamfordman »

dbcc33

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yes exactly that stamfordman, i could either assist my dad into the house or carry shopping into the house - i could not have done both together hence the 2 trips, sorry if that wasnt clear on my original post but i didnt mention offloading shopping as well as him. in hindsight again should have done the other way round as if i did shopping first then dad would have still been in car.

H C Andersen

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OP, whatever happened happened and I can't see any point in trying to change this.

Perhaps....

On the day in question I was accompanying my father on a shopping trip or whatever it was;
We returned to *** where he lives and I parked:
We had several bags of shopping and therefore I had to make two journeys, the first to assist my father the second to collect and unload his shopping.
I would estimate that both trips took no longer than ** in total.
As a matter of habit we placed his BB and I thought that this had been displayed but accept that this wasn't the case and that part had fallen into the footwell.
I didn't find the PCN until I came to drive away - I can see why from the CEO's photos which show the PCN obscured when approaching the car from the rear. But whether this was issued during my first or second trip I don't know.

I can say that neither journey took longer than necessary and therefore I would submit that whether under the grounds of assisted alighting or unloading the PCN should be cancelled. In addition, if neither of these exemptions is accepted I would ask that the authority exercise discretion on this occasion.

Wait for others.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2024, 01:29:43 pm by H C Andersen »

dbcc33

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Thanks HCA, that's very helpful.

with regards to going over it i was just thinking about how to avoid this in future (other than buying a holder that is!).

stamfordman

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It seems clear they don't want to cancel because they are aggrieved about a previous cancellation but you said they were different circumstances.

I would wait for the NTO and we'll help you draft reps.

dbcc33

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OK thanks, so now i don't do anything until the NTO ?
 

stamfordman

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There's nothing you can do other than send another challenge but Harrow will probably tell you to wait for the NTO.

Is the logbook up to date with correct address.