3. Harrow - Outside Markings
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Re: Harrow - Outside Markings
« Reply #15 on: »
Hilarious - the council's answer to the FOI request about why the bays were repainted was "because a work order was raised".  This is like a child answering a question with "because it is".
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Re: Harrow - Outside Markings
« Reply #16 on: »
So no one owning up to the work order.

Case I posted on another thread:

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Case reference   2240374029
Authority   London Borough of Havering

Contravention date   13 Nov 2023
Contravention time   18:04:00
Contravention location   High Street
Penalty amount   GBP 80.00
Contravention   Not parked correctly within markings of bay/space
   
Decision Date   13 Nov 2024
Adjudicator   Alastair Mcfarlane
Appeal decision   Appeal allowed
Direction   cancel the Penalty Charge Notice and the Notice to Owner.
Reasons   This case comes before me following the making of a witness statement and I therefore consider the merits afresh.
The Council's case is that the Appellant's vehicle was not parked correctly within the markings of the bay in Romford High Street on 13 November 2023. A penalty charge notice was issued at 1804.
The Appellant states that there was no error with his parking and that he did park within the bay provided and explained the difficulties were caused by a lorry in front of him and a car behind him. He refers to front tyre being out of the bay.
The Council rely upon the evidence of its civil enforcement officer. Whilst these are dark, it can be seen that the entire front wheel of the Appellant's vehicle is within the adjacent loading only bay.
However there is no evidence before me any condition to park fully within the bay has been communicated to the motorist. The Council describe the bay as a parking bay and that the vehicle was straddling into a loading bay. However it is a requirement for delegated legislation that the obligation to park fully within the bay must be communicated.
As there is no evidence before me as to how this was done for the bay in question, the appeal must be allowed.
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Re: Harrow - Outside Markings
« Reply #17 on: »
I'm keen to start drafting the adjudicator appeal.  A few questions:

1) The unreasonable timescales.  Shal I keep this roughly the same as the formal reps as suggested by HCA earlier?  I have made the suggested FOI but they have 20 working days to reply, and I am sure they will leave it until the last minute as they did with my previous one.  Is it not the case that council parking departments can be assumed to have received the SOS's guidelines?

2) We have "before and after" pictures for the repainting, with the "before" pictures showing these as very worn.  The FOI request was pretty useless as in the formal response they stated "A work order was raised by one of the Highway Inspector" as the reason for repainting.  I did later receive a reply stating "the lining works were ordered as part of the Council's highways maintenance responsibility to refresh faded road markings throughout the borough." However this was not part of the formal FOI request document, it was an informal reply to my response.  I am not sure it's strictly necessary though, as I believe the "before" picture shows the markings as very worn, and the "after" ones show they have since been repainted.  The reason for this is presumably obviously due to their condition.

3) In another user's thread, HCA stated "If this ever got to Tribunal, then you'd phrase any formal reps in order to line you up for a costs award against the authority".  Is this a costs-worthy case?  I feel it is completely unreasonable to keep a BB holder calling the TEC regularly for a whole year, especially as we know this will entail being on hold for a long period each time.  If so, how should it be worded?


Thanks
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Re: Harrow - Outside Markings
« Reply #18 on: »
I'd very much appreciate any feedback, particularly on whether the 12+ month wait for the OfR is a "silver bullet" and also on the wording/likelihood of costs.
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Re: Harrow - Outside Markings
« Reply #19 on: »
Are there any tips on what to do when there is only a day or two left in which to submit an appeal to the adjudicator, but the keeper says they do not have an appeal verification code, as the document was not included with the NOR?

Thanks
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Re: Harrow - Outside Markings
« Reply #20 on: »
Register the appeal, this does not require a full argument. Pl ensure it is registered. Grounds PI and whatever else is suggested.

The keeper will be given a Case No. and can view the authority's case and submit 'further representations' at any time up to their hearing.

Get the appeal registered pl.

NB. * I've couched the above in these terms because earlier you posted that you were not the keeper. If this is correct then make sure the keeper registers the appeal. You may act on their behalf if you have written permission which you'd need to present to the tribunal.
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Re: Harrow - Outside Markings
« Reply #21 on: »
Yes I'm not the keeper, I am helping him.  I have written permission.

The website doesn't allow an appeal to be registered without the appeal code:



And there was no tribunal document attached with the NOR, so I can't see how this can be done by post.  Am I missing something?
« Last Edit: December 10, 2024, 03:34:21 pm by dave-o »
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Re: Harrow - Outside Markings
« Reply #22 on: »
Call the tribunal and ask them what you are supposed to do.

020 7520 7200 - open til 5pm. 

Have you posted the full rejection letter from Harrow.

I expect they'll say sort it out with Harrow.
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Re: Harrow - Outside Markings
« Reply #23 on: »
The full NOR is in reply #10
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Re: Harrow - Outside Markings
« Reply #24 on: »
Am I missing something?

Yes, the accompanying form.

Speak to the tribunal tomorrow (I see stamfordman has already advised this). They have a direct line to authorities.

The 28-day period ends on 12th, but once you've made contact they'll extend.

Have you read the NOR and compared with the regs? The NOR itself is a guaranteed win IMO under PI because it omits mandatory reference to the issue of costs and, ironically the adjudicator's power to register an appeal late!

So:
Failure to comply with their public law duty to act fairly;
Failure to comply with Secretary of State's Statutory Guidance;
Failure to comply with the 'Appeals' regulations.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2024, 04:41:59 pm by H C Andersen »
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Re: Harrow - Outside Markings
« Reply #25 on: »
Thank you, they have suggested I submit to their email address (London Tribunals, that is).  Is that what you meant by "register the appeal"?
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Re: Harrow - Outside Markings
« Reply #26 on: »
Submit what?

You need a form, whether theirs online or the one missing from the NOR. There are some specific fields which have to be completed.
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Re: Harrow - Outside Markings
« Reply #27 on: »
I am well aware of what we need to do, however none of this is actually possible in the situation.

As stated, no form was received.  It is not possible to continue the online form without an "appeal verification code".  There is no (as far as I can find) copy of the postal form that can be downloaded anywhere.  You seem to be implying there is some way other than the above dead ends in which to register an appeal?  What would that be?


On the phone, the tribunal has suggested sending an email marked "urgent" to them, with an outline of the appeal.  This has been done but no response received other than a confirmation of receipt.

The council is a dead end as the PCN line states "Email us, and don't bother trying any other of the phone lines as we won't talk to you"
« Last Edit: December 11, 2024, 10:25:33 am by dave-o »
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Re: Harrow - Outside Markings
« Reply #28 on: »
You should also email the council and say they didn't send the appeal details.
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Re: Harrow - Outside Markings
« Reply #29 on: »
Quote from: stamfordman on December 11, 2024, 11:35:53 am
You should also email the council and say they didn't send the appeal details.

I did so yesterday.  Harrow are absolute disorganised gits though, and it's in their interest to delay until Friday, so I'm not holding out much hope.

I'm wondering if we can go through the whole stat dec procedure again, claiming no NOR was received (actually, not a complete NOR in this case).  This seems pretty sketchy though.

As it is he will probably just have to pay tomorrow if neither organisation gets back to us.  This really sticks in the craw after all they've put him through ad that it was the council's mistake.
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