Author Topic: Harrow Council parking ticket outside my home - going to court ADVICE NEEDED!  (Read 6270 times)

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Hi, yes everything you state in your first paragraph is exactly correct.

The car was registered by the dealer I purchased it from. A private small business import specialist. Obviously I had no clue about emissions data at the time. The car is petrol and is indeed ulez compliant.

So the tribunal thingie, do I appeal the £140 letter there or do I first appeal following instructions given on the letter - I believe I have 28 days for representation.

What do you suggest I do next?

Many thanks.
You have to submit representations to the council and get them rejected first, before you can register an appeal at London Tribunals.

OK will do thanks. Any tips on how to do the council appeal?

OK will do thanks. Any tips on how to do the council appeal?
Well, I don't think I am qualified to suggest a draft representation, but I think you would need to outline the events which gave rise to the PCN being served, namely the council refusal to renew the permit at its existing rate. The statutory ground would be "the penalty exceed the relevant amount in the circumstances of the case"

In parallel to following the process, I think you need to get your local coucnillor involved, that's what they're there for, things like this !

Final question - is your car ULEZ-exempt ? If so then put this into your reps. It does seem Harrow officials are behaving in a somewhat bovine way. But I think closure will only come when you get an emissions rating applied to your car's record in the DVLA.

The car shows as compliant on the TFL ULEZ checker and also on the gov.uk Clean Air Zones checker.

The DVLA would have assigned an unissued VRM to the car consistent with the reported date of 1st registration in it's country of origin. In this case this is said to be September 2013. So it's been issued with a 63 series VRM. So some proof of that date was likely supplied with the registration application.

In order to determine compliance the ULEZ and CAZ checkers will first look at the VRM. If it's later than Jan 1st 2006, then for a petrol car then it will assume the car is compliant. This is because it would not have been legal to register a new petrol non-compliant (with Euro 4) car on or after the 1st Jan 2006. At least that is the case with a UK market car, which is not the scenario here.

It looks like the actual emissions are not further checked for possible compliance unless the car doesn't pass the VRM check.

So does that mean that the DVLA will ignore Euro compliance for a non UK/EU car when it gets re-registered in the UK?

Or is it the case that that evidence of emissions have to be provided with the registration application? The rules  seem to be very opaque.

And it seems that the Single Vehicle Approval test can be waived where the car is more that 10 years old.

In any event surely the MOT test centre would have to test the car to the same emissions standards that apply to the equivalent domestic model. Not to mention that Japanese emissions standards will be at least as stringent as the UK/EU standards and may even be tougher.

I suggest you go back to the dealer who sold the car. Ask them about what information and documentation they supplied to the DVLA to register the car? And what happened to the emissions info?

An alternative view:

You held a permit for this car;
The permit carries an expiry date of 19 Jan 2025. You say it expired in March;
You tried to renew - we have no idea for how long this continued, but certainly beyond the notice period which they probably gave you and and 'grace' period after expiry - but did not like the rate offered...I'm certain this affects '000s of motorists annually;
You decided to continue to park in a res only bay while you argued the toss about tariff. We have not seen any of this correspondence and for all we know they wrote and said if you cannot prove your entitlement to a different council tariff then we will commence enforcement from **** if you have not secured alternative parking rights;
You were issued with PCNs which you have not paid;
The only council correspondence you've posted does not support your version of events 'Also we have no communication from the permit team to confirm there was issues with issuing your permit or they encountered any issues.';
You could have obtained alternative parking rights at a charge but you decided not to.

So, why would disagreeing with the council tariff be statutory grounds of appeal at adjudication?

So at the end of all this messaging your conclusion is that I've just been a very naughty boy and I need to pay up and not bother the council? Just because I've not posted the conversations between myself and the council.

I'm not sure why things are so unclear for you, I've summarised it several times, there isn't really a need to post every email conversation, you just need to trust me - I tried to get a permit, it wasn't the correct price band so I asked them to please lower it, to which they said no. I tried lots of times and whilst doing so I got two tickets.

There isn't anything they said thst jumps out, they said it would be unfair to other residents if they lowered my tarrif without the proper certification from bmw. They refused the mot version of my emissions and also refused my like for like auto trader comparison.

Nothing more to this really. They were super slow to respond sometimes over 2 weeks. My permit ran out in March not January. Even if it was January, it doesn't matter really - I syarted discussions on January.

Does anyone have any useful advise for me?

Or should I just pay them £280 and be done with it?

You have 2 x Notices to Owner @ £140 each?
You need to either pay them or submit representations challenging them. So £280.

Assuming you challenge and get rejected then you can appeal to the independent adjudicator. If you lose at adjudication then the bill will still be £280.

So if you are willing to put the effort in then I would have a go, you don't have a financial incentive to do otherwise.

And Harrow night also re-offer the discount reducing the bill to 2 x £70.

That said I don't hold out much hope with the adjudication. However anything can happen, Harrow might well mess up their own case.

My advice with very few exceptions is to always challenge PCNs, all the way. You'll win more often that you will lose. And don't worry you will be getting more and more of them to fight.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2025, 06:39:44 pm by Enceladus »

So at the end of all this messaging your conclusion is that I've just been a very naughty boy and I need to pay up and not bother the council? Just because I've not posted the conversations between myself and the council.

I'm not sure why things are so unclear for you, I've summarised it several times, there isn't really a need to post every email conversation, you just need to trust me - I tried to get a permit, it wasn't the correct price band so I asked them to please lower it, to which they said no. I tried lots of times and whilst doing so I got two tickets.

There isn't anything they said thst jumps out, they said it would be unfair to other residents if they lowered my tarrif without the proper certification from bmw. They refused the mot version of my emissions and also refused my like for like auto trader comparison.

Nothing more to this really. They were super slow to respond sometimes over 2 weeks. My permit ran out in March not January. Even if it was January, it doesn't matter really - I syarted discussions on January.

Does anyone have any useful advise for me?

You need to obtain the CoC from BMW to confirm the emissions data:

Thank you, I just spoke to the dealer I bought the car from and he sent me the link for requesting coc from BMW!

But how do I proceed regarding the councils fines...?

I would pay one at discount if available (given you've had some free permit time) and politely ask for discretion on the second, given the muddle.

That's probably the best way to clear this up.

I'm not sure one can haggle on payments with the council?

The second one says "on hold", not sure what that means.

They've issued a NTO and further enforcement (issuing a Charge Certificate) has been put on hold for the representations period. If you make reps in time then On Hold would continue until they consider and respond and for any period allowed for appealing to the adjudicator, if applicable.

OK so any tips on how to appeal this? What I should include the angle to come in from etc?

Without seeing any of the council's correspondence, who would know what angle you could take?
« Last Edit: August 30, 2025, 02:55:12 pm by H C Andersen »