Author Topic: Haringey PCN - Code 21(I) Parked in a suspended bay - La Rose Lane  (Read 2269 times)

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Haringey PCN - Code 21(I) Parked in a suspended bay - La Rose Lane
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Hi,

I received a council PCN and wanted some advice please on whether it is worth appealing.

I had a doctors appointment on the 21st September. I was stuck in traffic due to local LTN and was running late. I parked in my parents road near the doctor and used a resident parking ticket but I noticed that there were multiple signs mentioning suspended bays so I parked where there were no signs and used the resident permit.

When I got to my car, I saw a yellow PCN note attached to my car.





As I was in a hurry, I didn't notice that the signs actually mentioned the bays that were suspended:



I was parked outside 56. As I was in a hurry, I missed the numbers on the signs. I parked away from the signs, mistakenly believing I was not parking near the suspended bays:



I was in the wrong, I missed the details as I was in a rush.

Is there any point appealing? The fact I was displaying a permit and I had a medical appointment, is it worth asking for leniency?

Any help would be appreciated!

PS. Here is the street view:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/6tTDUBwMMogYuGjh6
« Last Edit: September 27, 2023, 11:14:20 am by ltn_hell »

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Re: Haringey PCN - Code 21(I) Parked in a suspended bay - La Rose Lane
« Reply #1 on: »
So, you were in a big rush, saw some spaces, and also the yellow sign which you knew was a suspension sign, parked up away from the sign without going to see what the sign said, and proceeded to the doctors.

Well, in all honesty, I cannot see any credible appeal argument to present at the adjudicators. Of course you can submit representations to the council on a mitigation basis. These may or may not succeed, but if the council refuse your reps, going to London Tribunals will not succeed as they cannot consider mitigation. I looked at the PCN and it seems OK.

Others may see something I haven't so wait a bit, but don't miss any deadlines like the discount end date

Re: Haringey PCN - Code 21(I) Parked in a suspended bay - La Rose Lane
« Reply #2 on: »
So, you were in a big rush, saw some spaces, and also the yellow sign which you knew was a suspension sign, parked up away from the sign without going to see what the sign said, and proceeded to the doctors.

Yes, that is correct. I had to walk 100 metres to my parents house, find a ticket, fill in the ticket, walk back to the car and display the ticket. For reasons I can't explain, it didn't register to check the signs, I just assumed I was ok as I parks far from the signs. I even walked past the traffic warden, fully believing I was fine.

Well, in all honesty, I cannot see any credible appeal argument to present at the adjudicators. Of course you can submit representations to the council on a mitigation basis. These may or may not succeed, but if the council refuse your reps, going to London Tribunals will not succeed as they cannot consider mitigation. I looked at the PCN and it seems OK.

Others may see something I haven't so wait a bit, but don't miss any deadlines like the discount end date

I think asking for leniency is my only chance, I wouldn't take it further if it was rejected.

Re: Haringey PCN - Code 21(I) Parked in a suspended bay - La Rose Lane
« Reply #3 on: »

The objective facts:
Your car was parked o/s 54/56 (the PCN states 54 but the CEO's photo suggests 54/56).
The suspended area in that part ran from 48 to 58.

There is a normal traffic sign o/s 50 and also one o/s 62.

You were parked approx. equidistant between the two facing towards the higher numbered properties.

The CEO photographed the suspension sign attached to the traffic sign @ no. 50.


Now, you say 'I had to walk 100 metres to my parents house, find a ticket, fill in the ticket, walk back to the car and display the ticket. For reasons I can't explain, it didn't register to check the signs,'.

Perhaps we can. There is an obvious answer, which is that you walked towards no.62 and there wasn't a suspension sign there, which is why there was nothing to see.

We have this issue on a regular basis i.e. councils not placing suspension signs beyond the suspended area in some odd belief that a suspension sign, even if some distance from where a car is parked, has magical and magnetic properties which draw drivers even if this is not the direction they would exit the suspended area. In this case, as the furthest extent of the suspended area was no. 58 then as this is obviously closer to 62 than is 50 and clearly visible the council was obliged to place a suspension sign there. 

You could check with the council before submitting a challenge.

Re: Haringey PCN - Code 21(I) Parked in a suspended bay - La Rose Lane
« Reply #4 on: »
Thank you for your very kind reply.

I wanted to state that the photos of the road and of the sign were taken by myself. Also, my car was outside 56, or at least 90% of my car was outside 56. Also, the car outside 60 was given a ticket too.


You could check with the council before submitting a challenge.

Sorry but do you mean before challenging the ticket?

Thanks again

Re: Haringey PCN - Code 21(I) Parked in a suspended bay - La Rose Lane
« Reply #5 on: »

Yes, but don't miss the discount deadline.

Please tell me when and where the suspension signs indicating the recent suspension in La Rose Lane were erected (see photo).

Current suspensions in operation

Please contact suspensions@haringey.gov.uk for a list of current and recent parking suspensions.

Re: Haringey PCN - Code 21(I) Parked in a suspended bay - La Rose Lane
« Reply #6 on: »
I thank HCA for his input because I think there is an argument that the contravention did not occur, reason - inadequate signage of the restriction. No 58 is the highest house number on the notice, yet clearly the CEO didn't read the sign either if a car outside 60 got a PCN.

The bay is not delineated, so a motorist should be able to rely on the sign he can see near his car. With no delineation of the bay,  all the parking bay signs for the bay should have the suspension sign.  Of course the council will claim otherwise, so you'd have to go to London Tribunals for an unbiased decision. Are you willing to stand your ground and go to London Tribunals ? There is no discount option if you do. Failure to sign suspensions properly has won appeals in the past.

Of course I am assuming the parking restrictions sign outside No 62 had no sign !  All the above falls over if it had onwe.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2023, 06:09:50 pm by Incandescent »

Re: Haringey PCN - Code 21(I) Parked in a suspended bay - La Rose Lane
« Reply #7 on: »

Please tell me when and where the suspension signs indicating the recent suspension in La Rose Lane were erected (see photo).

Current suspensions in operation

Please contact suspensions@haringey.gov.uk for a list of current and recent parking suspensions.


Thank you, I have emailed them.

I thank HCA for his input because I think there is an argument that the contravention did not occur, reason - inadequate signage of the restriction. No 58 is the highest house number on the notice, yet clearly the CEO didn't read the sign either if a car outside 60 got a PCN.

The bay is not delineated, so a motorist should be able to rely on the sign he can see near his car. With no delineation of the bay,  all the parking bay signs for the bay should have the suspension sign.  Of course the council will claim otherwise, so you'd have to go to London Tribunals for an unbiased decision. Are you willing to stand your ground and go to London Tribunals ? There is no discount option if you do. Failure to sign suspensions properly has won appeals in the past.

That is very interesting. So basically, the bays should have individual bays for the signage to be correct?

Of course I am assuming the parking restrictions sign outside No 62 had no sign !  All the above falls over if it had onwe.

No, there wasn't any signs outside 62. I took another picture and it's possible to zoom in and see that.

Thanks for all help.

Re: Haringey PCN - Code 21(I) Parked in a suspended bay - La Rose Lane
« Reply #8 on: »
The objective facts:
What objective facts? I can't see any council photos and because the VRM has been redacted, we can't even look them up, so there are no objective facts.

@ltn_hell please give us the number plate.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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Re: Haringey PCN - Code 21(I) Parked in a suspended bay - La Rose Lane
« Reply #9 on: »
Very sorry for delay. Number plate is EX17BKU
« Last Edit: October 03, 2023, 07:26:52 pm by ltn_hell »

Re: Haringey PCN - Code 21(I) Parked in a suspended bay - La Rose Lane
« Reply #10 on: »

'The objective facts'..in the context of the OP only disclosing subsequently that they were theirs. In any event, they're as objective as necessary unless it's considered that the OP switched or removed signs! As regards the argument, the point remains germane and I am content to use what's posted and attested to  as a working hypothesis.

But OP you have not answered the question in which direction you left the suspended area.

Re: Haringey PCN - Code 21(I) Parked in a suspended bay - La Rose Lane
« Reply #11 on: »


But OP you have not answered the question in which direction you left the suspended area.

I'm sorry, I missed this question.

I drove down the road and noticed the suspended signs, then I noticed there were only displayed up to no 50. I drove past, then did a u-turn at the end (there is an LTN box). But as I don't like parking against traffic, I went round the roundabout  and parked where I felt it was safe.

When I left my car, I walked towards number 2.

Re: Haringey PCN - Code 21(I) Parked in a suspended bay - La Rose Lane
« Reply #12 on: »
So am I right in thinking you walked right past this sign?



Could you see any evidence of any utility works taking place?

This is the sign authorisation.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2023, 09:20:18 pm by cp8759 »
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: Haringey PCN - Code 21(I) Parked in a suspended bay - La Rose Lane
« Reply #13 on: »
So am I right in thinking you walked right past this sign?

I'm afraid so. In my mind, I wasn't parked in an affected area.
 

Could you see any evidence of any utility works taking place?

Nothing at all. There was no evidence of any work taking place.

Re: Haringey PCN - Code 21(I) Parked in a suspended bay - La Rose Lane
« Reply #14 on: »
Well I've already asked for the suspension logs so we might as well wait and see what comes back. In the meantime a representation will see the discount extended, so I suggest you send something in. Post a draft on here first.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order