Author Topic: Croydon Contravention 62 - rejection  (Read 92 times)

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Humpofjunk

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Croydon Contravention 62 - rejection
« on: December 13, 2024, 01:37:37 pm »
Hello

In the space of a week, I have received two PCNs for contravention 62 whilst parked outside of my house on a raised curb, half on the road and pavement. I have a permit to park down this road and to access it when there are restrictions.

PCN 1 is CR47782284 and PCN 2 is CR47751746.

I have challenged them both and received a rejection for PCN 1, I am yet to hear about PCN 2. I have provided a Google drive link to their response for the rejection of PCN 1.

There is signage at both ends of the road which show that you can park half on the road and half on the pavement. Next to the signs, there are marked bays for a few cars and then the rest of the road has dropped curbs and raised curbs. There is also a 'No Stopping' sign by the side of the school road too.

For both PCNs, i parked outside of my house on a raised curb ensuring that i was not blocking access. I have parked here, like this for a year at least.

Previously, the council gave another PCN for the same contraventation 62 to my builders under CR45614132. They cancelled it as i gave justification that i had obtained a permit for my builders who were carrying out work on property and they had adhered to the rules.

So i am baffled at the rejection letter from them and how they mention item 244 of the highway code but the signs show that you can park down the road within reason (signage permited). Also the signage doesn't reflect the following that they mention in the rejection letter "we wish to advise you that, although there is an exemption to the footway parking restriction on Haling Road- beyween nos.48-66, your vehicle was parked outisde of this area at no 13, therefore a contravention occured".

It also doesn't make sense that they cancelled PCN CR45614132 which challenged last year on behalf of my builders.

Please can you help me.

Kind Regards.


https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1ovpw35YwQwixGbFtmG9IcgPwTd0gnSON

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stamfordman

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Re: Croydon Contravention 62 - rejection
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2024, 03:14:47 pm »
The sign doesn't say park in marked bays only and it's likely they've disapplied the footway ban in the road, and on both sides the footway parking allowed sign covers your side as well as the other side.

So I think they are talking nonsense.

What is the car VRM.

There is no marked 2-up footway parking on Croydon's order map for this part of Haling Road. Only the school no stopping and yellow lines at the ends.




Humpofjunk

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Re: Croydon Contravention 62 - rejection
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2024, 03:19:03 pm »
Thank you for replying. Exactly my thoughts!

The reg number is LT16FMJ.

stamfordman

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Re: Croydon Contravention 62 - rejection
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2024, 03:42:46 pm »
The first one shows you quite some way over the pavement so you need to be careful to be more like the second but it's just footway parking they are alleging regardless.




Humpofjunk

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Re: Croydon Contravention 62 - rejection
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2024, 03:49:34 pm »
Thanks. Understood. Should I now wait for the NTO and challenge the first PCN? I will wait for the council's response for the second PCN. I am sure they will reject it.

Just wondering how best to word the NTO challenge.

H C Andersen

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Re: Croydon Contravention 62 - rejection
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2024, 01:17:08 pm »
PCNs *** and ****

I refer to the above, my initial representations, the council's rejection letters dated ** and **, the Part 2 Sign Table of Schedule 7 to the Traffic Signs etc. Regulations and the enclosed GSV snapshot and my photos.

Both rejection letters gave the following as the  substantive reason for rejecting my representations:

You were issued.....

...contravention occurred.


From the evidence you will see that the council have been misinformed on this matter which raises serious issues regarding competence and financial liability as regards any historical misapplication of the law. My PCNs must be cancelled for the following reasons.

Approx. 20m from its junction with the other branch of Haling Road the council have placed traffic signs to the form prescribed in item 12 in the sign table(referred to as diagram 667)- see GSV and my photos. These carry the following meaning in law:

Vehicles may be parked partially on the verge or footway

If I may now refer you to your letters of rejection:

You MUST NOT park partially or wholly on the pavement in London...unless signs permit it.

And as regards this section of Haling Road, the signs placed by the council DO permit it. Where the council have gone wrong on this point is to believe that they may disregard the meaning of this sign and amend its effect by placing markings on the footway and then penalise drivers who park beyond or outside these markings.

If the council wish to restrict footway parking to marked areas then there is a separate sign prescribed for this purpose - see item 14 in the sign table(diagram 667.1) with the permitted variant of 'In marked bays only'. Absent these key words in the sign (and as regards this issue alone) motorists are permitted to park anywhere on the footway on either side of the road beyond the signs in situ until terminated by sign 16, diagram 667.2 which marks the end of the area.

If officers are in doubt on these points then I strongly recommend that they seek advice from legal officers. 

I would also bring to your attention that the PCNs did not arise because of one CEO's misapplication of the law but, as can be seen by the council's replies and the fact that works orders must have been raised by another department to erect the signs and mark the footway, because there's a systemic failure to understand the law. In fact whether the council have even formally disapplied the provisions of s15 GLC(GP)A 1974 and to what extent is still unknown.

To add to the above, I again refer you to the signs in Haling Road - see photos. You will see that these show both diagram 667 and 667.2 signs together. However, given that the road is one-way the meaning of the signs at the Haling Rd junction is unknown. Is diagram 667.2 supposed to mean the end of a permitted footway parking area preceding the sign, but if so why bother as footway parking is permitted after the sign or for traffic passing the wrong way along Haling Road?

I note from GSV that the incorrect signs and markings combination has been in existence since at least 2008 and I can only wonder how many unlawful penalties have been demanded since then(for parking outside the markings), or even earlier, and the scale of refunds for which the council will be liable.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/7/made

GSV snapshots
Your photos of the signs.

Just some thoughts.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2024, 01:21:55 pm by H C Andersen »

Humpofjunk

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Re: Croydon Contravention 62 - rejection
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2024, 04:56:35 pm »
Thank you