Author Topic: Contravention code 12 – parking in Res permit holders zone, but sign painted out – Hillingdon WD4 Ferrers Ave  (Read 230 times)

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Hi all,

Posting on behalf of a friend. Vehicle was parked in restricted zone (residents permits only). However, all signs were painted out leaving only the blue 'P' for 'parking' so the driver thought it was fine to park. There was a sign at the entrance of the road but this was obscured behind a tree (see attached screenshot from Google Streetview).

In my view the PCN isn't enforceable since the signage wasn't correct. Streetview shows that the signs have been painted out since at least July 2024 so the council have had plenty of time to repair/replace them.

Also it seems that the warden didn't observe the vehicle for more than 6 mins. Is that relevant?

Would love to know what you chaps think – any feedback will be gratefully received!!

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« Last Edit: June 05, 2025, 03:32:57 pm by Wilbo »

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A rather selective GSV snapshot!

Op no. 10 is just inside the zone. Personally, I think it's what's not there which adds most weight to the argument i.e. you cannot have a start to a zone without an end. See p.162.

The council have tried to dispense with the 'Parking permit area ENDS' sign by having this co-terminous with the beginning of the Ticket and Meter Zone....but they can't because, apart from anything else, the respective hours of operation are different.

As the driver was so close to the entrance to the zone then when they looked around them for indicators as to what restrictions might apply they didn't see any i.e. the repeater sign doesn't carry any info and the Permit ENDS sign which would have been clearly visible wasn't, because it there isn't one.

But I think this would have to be argued at the tribunal because councils don't like to acknowledge shoddy signing.

Great observation! Thanks for that… I’ll work it into an appeal and post if up shortly…

Op no. 10 is just inside the zone. Personally, I think it's what's not there which adds most weight to the argument i.e. you cannot have a start to a zone without an end. See p.162.

Ah sadly I don't think this line of argument will quite work since the Traffic Signs Manual stipulates that

"A sign to diagram 664.1 indicating the end of the permit holder parking area will be needed, unless it is a cul‑de‑sac." (my emphasis).

it adds that

"repeater signs are not mandatory and might not be required at all in a short cul‑de‑sac or where parking by non‑permit holders is not likely to be a problem."

Unfortunately, Ferrers Ave is indeed a cul-de-sac. Nonetheless I will mention this as I guess there was no other sign to see from the driver's POV upon parking, except from the tampered-with signage which suggest that parking IS permitted...

However, there is further bad news: the manual states that

"Where parking in an entire road is reserved solely for permit holders, it might be possible to provide signs at the entrance to the road and dispense with signs and bay markings within the road itself"

and adds that

"In order to reduce environmental impact, there is no requirement to provide an entry sign on each side of the road."

So I think that the best approach is to argue that the signage was confusing and that the driver reasonably believed that they were permitted to park in the street. What do you think?

Here's my appeal - any feedback would be very welcome!


I wish to appeal the above PCN, on the grounds that the driver was unaware of restrictions in place when they parked, due to insufficient signage.

Firstly, there were ‘repeater signs’ along the length of the street but all of these had been painted out so they were entirely blank apart from the blue ‘P’ sign, which is universally recognised as a symbol for parking. Thus, when the driver exited the vehicle and looked around for parking information, they saw one of these signs nearby and reasonably assumed that parking was permitted with no restrictions. There were no times or other restrictions visible on the signs. The vehicle was parked close to the entrance to the permit parking area but there was no sign signalling the end of the area (since this is a cul-de-sac) and so there was no other signage visible to the driver when they exited the vehicle and looked around.

Secondly, the sign signalling entrance to the permit parking area was obscured by a tree (planted since March 2022) and the second entrance sign, which would have been more clearly seen, has been removed for some time. The attached Google Street View screenshots clearly show that the sign is not visible to drivers as they enter the road or indeed once they have driven some way into it. The sign is only visible once a vehicle is level with the tree itself and the likelihood of the driver actually seeing it might be greatly lessened by road conditions at the time – for instance passing a high-sided vehicle, or when observing potential hazards such as children playing in the cul-de-sac.

As can be seen from the attached Street View screenshots, in March 2022 there were two entrance signs, one on each side of the road; there was no tree obscuring view of the right-hand sign; the repeater signs along the length of the street had not been altered. By July 2024, however, the left-hand entrance sign had been removed; a tree had been planted (presumably by the council) very close to the remaining entrance sign; and the repeater signs had all been painted over leaving no information apart from the blue ‘P’ logo which indicates permitted parking.

In the ten months since then there has been ample time for the council to repair or replace the repeater signs and to trim or remove the newly-planted tree which obscures the only remaining entrance sign. They have not done so. Taken together, the issues with the visibility of the signage in Farrars Avenue are such that the driver was unaware of the restrictions in place. Therefore, I respectfully request that on this occasion the PCN please be cancelled.

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« Last Edit: June 06, 2025, 03:22:36 pm by Wilbo »

Not for me.

You're scoping well beyond what's required IMO.

Driver entered, parked and looked around for any markings which would indicate whether parking was restricted; saw a Ticket and Meter Zone sign, but this was indicating the start of that restriction and wasn't relevant; saw a sign on opposite side of the road, but apart from this not applying where the driver was parked, it was blank other than for a faint 'P'.

When I returned and found the PCN I looked further afield even backtracking to the start of the road. At this point I noticed what I now know to be a Permit Parking Area sign situated on the opposite footway but which was obscured by a tree from the driver's seat when entering the road. Subsequent research has shown that this restriction has been in place for some years and whereas as recently as 2022 it was marked by 2 prominent signs either side of the carriageway and no tree, the council have let this deteriorate to one sign on the offside footway obscured (at least at this time of the year) by a leafy crown.

With respect, the PCN should be cancelled and the signage improved, at least to the standards deemed necessary in 2022.

Some thoughts.

Some thoughts.

Thank you so much H C!

I've incorporated your suggestions as follows:

I wish to appeal the above PCN, on the grounds that the driver was unaware of any restrictions in place when they parked, due to insufficient signage.

When the driver exited the vehicle they looked around for any markings which would indicate whether parking was restricted. There was a clearly-visible sign marking the entrance to the 'Ticket and Meter Zone’ at the entrance to Farrars Avenue, and into Station Road and beyond: this very obviously did not apply to the portion of Farrars Avenue in which the vehicle was parked. Nearer to where the vehicle was parked the driver noticed a smaller sign which was entirely blank apart from a single blue ‘P’ sign (a universally-recognised symbol for parking). Above this, on the same post, was a further sign forbidding heavy vehicles from parking in the area outside of the hours 8am–6.30pm. Apart from this, which clearly did not apply to the vehicle in question, there was no indication of parking restrictions in force in the street.

On returning to the vehicle and finding the PCN, the driver explored the area and discovered a sign indicating the start of a Permit Parking Area. The driver had not seen this before as it is obscured by a tree from the driver’s vantage point when entering the road, as the attached Google Street View screenshots demonstrate. The driver also examined the signs near the car and found that text informing drivers of restrictions in place had been painted over with opaque white paint, leaving only the ‘P’ symbol visible.

Subsequent research has shown that restrictions have been in place in Farrers Avenue for some years and whereas these were previously signalled by two prominent signs on either side of the carriageway (as recently as 2022), the council has let this deteriorate to only one sign on the offside footway which is now obscured (at least at this time of the year) by a leafy crown. Furthermore, the 'repeater signs’ along the street have all been painted over since at least March 2022, leaving ample time for repair or replacement.

With respect, the PCN should be cancelled and the signage improved, at least to the standards deemed necessary in 2022.


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(Note that the car was parked very near to the repeater sign which had been painted out, not on the other side of the road to it – see attached image which I forgot to include before)

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« Last Edit: June 06, 2025, 07:38:31 pm by Wilbo »