3. Haringey Code 12r (parking without valid permit) in resident bay - 13 PCNs & appeals rejected
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inst1nct103

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Re: Haringey Code 12r (parking without valid permit) in resident bay - 13 PCNs & appeals rejected
« Reply #120 on: October 01, 2024, 11:13:06 am »
@Incandescent - Understood, thanks for clarifying! I'll be sure to opt for the telephone hearing with that in mind

@Enceladus - yes, so this is dealing with 13 PCNs. The 14th one I am appealing separately, as I didn't officially receive an NoR for that and @cp8759 is helping me out with that one.

I've received a total of 13 NoRs and they all for the 13 PCNs and not the pound one.

I was abroad when my sister called me when she was at the pound getting the car released. They provided a print out of the PCNs as I requested them to do so via the phone, as I wasn't aware of any of them. I then proceeded to go onto the Haringey website and submitted the initial appeal one by one for each of them. It was a somewhat generic appeal and this was before the NtO stage and before I posted on this forum. I only posted on this forum when all 13 had progressed to the NtO stage as at that point I learnt about this forum from a friend.

The missing NtOs did not turn up and they never clarified why in their response. Also the copy they have given in response is the same copy on every one of the 13 PCN NoR letters.

Yes, they all arrived last Tuesday/Wednesday. I decided to open them yesterday as I knew I would need to set aside an evening for this and haven't had a chance since then. 11 of the 13 PCNs have been issued on the 21st and the rest have been issued on the 23rd.

And no need to apologise! Happy to detail anything I can.

PCN Number   NoR Received   NoR Date
1   ZN1212851A   Yes   21/09/24
2   ZN12266976   Yes   23/09/24
3   ZN12212900   Yes   23/09/24
4   ZN1235398A   Yes   23/09/24
5   ZN12354086   Yes   23/09/24
6   ZN12355191   Yes   23/09/24
7   ZN12354326   Yes   23/09/24
8   ZN12354417   Yes   23/09/24
9   ZN12354552   Yes   23/09/24
10   ZN12354734   Yes   21/09/24
11   ZN12411612   Yes   23/09/24
12   ZN12411827   Yes   23/09/24
13   ZN12413039   Yes   23/09/24
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cp8759

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Re: Haringey Code 12r (parking without valid permit) in resident bay - 13 PCNs & appeals rejected
« Reply #121 on: October 01, 2024, 03:06:51 pm »
@inst1nct103 so if I understand this rightly you have 13 formal notices of rejection that all give an appeal to the tribunal as the next step?

I could represent you at the tribunal for all of them, but I have not had time to review your case in detail so I cannot tell you what the chances of success are. Drop me an email if you'd like me to represent you for the whole lot.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
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Enceladus

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Re: Haringey Code 12r (parking without valid permit) in resident bay - 13 PCNs & appeals rejected
« Reply #122 on: October 01, 2024, 03:15:26 pm »
@cp8759
There are 14 PCNs. The 13 discussed above and the 14th is for a PCN and removal awaiting an NoR. You've apparently been helping with that 14th PCN?

@inst1nct103
Do you know which of the PCNs the Council are referring to when they say that a challenge was receive from you before the NTO was served?
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stamfordman

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Re: Haringey Code 12r (parking without valid permit) in resident bay - 13 PCNs & appeals rejected
« Reply #123 on: October 01, 2024, 03:22:56 pm »
Discount is on the table so tribunal is potentially risking an extra £845.

I doubt an adjudicator will refuse all of them given the remedy of a tow and the council policy to tow well before this. The adjudicator could also direct/recommend that the discount is reinstated for some or all.
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inst1nct103

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Re: Haringey Code 12r (parking without valid permit) in resident bay - 13 PCNs & appeals rejected
« Reply #124 on: October 01, 2024, 03:48:30 pm »
@cp8759 - yes, 13 formal NoRs. Will let you know!

@Enceladus - all of them. I appealed all 13 online and then they issued NtOs for all of them (13) after. To make it a bit clearer here's the breakdown for each PCN:

   PCN Number   Challenge Received Date   Challenge Rejection Date
1   ZN1212851A   01/06/2024   05/07/2024
2   ZN12266976   01/06/2024   05/07/2024
3   ZN12212900   01/06/2024   05/07/2024
4   ZN1235398A   01/06/2024   05/07/2024
5   ZN12354086   01/06/2024   07/07/2024
6   ZN12355191   01/06/2024   07/07/2024
7   ZN12354326   01/06/2024   07/07/2024
8   ZN12354417   01/06/2024   07/07/2024
9   ZN12354552   01/06/2024   07/07/2024
10   ZN12354734   01/06/2024   07/07/2024
11   ZN12411612   01/06/2024   07/07/2024
12   ZN12411827   01/06/2024   08/07/2024
13   ZN12413039   01/06/2024   07/07/2024

@stamfordman - yeah it's something I need to think about. With or without a discount it's just a lot of money quite frankly that I don't have. Yeah I'm really hoping they'll see that the vehicle should have been removed earlier and they show some discretion in removing some of them and keeping others reduced. Based on all the thread comments, I think there is a legitimate case here for some fairness to be exhibited.

I'm just not sure if it's worth paying for PCN 1 and then taking the others to the tribunal? In my view, paying for the first does demonstrate that I did make a mistake in not seeing the email (irrespective of my general issue with council communications around permit reminders) and this is taking ownership of it. But then hoping it further pushes the case that PCN 2-13 essentially all refer to the same contravention and their issuing is an unreasonable response.
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cp8759

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Re: Haringey Code 12r (parking without valid permit) in resident bay - 13 PCNs & appeals rejected
« Reply #125 on: October 01, 2024, 03:59:40 pm »
@inst1nct103 I would not pay the first PCN, for all you know they might fail to prove any of them.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

cp8759

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Re: Haringey Code 12r (parking without valid permit) in resident bay - 13 PCNs & appeals rejected
« Reply #126 on: October 01, 2024, 04:02:39 pm »
Quote from: Enceladus on October 01, 2024, 03:15:26 pm
@cp8759
You've apparently been helping with that 14th PCN
@Enceladus yes towing PCN is listed for a hearing on 24 October.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Enceladus

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Re: Haringey Code 12r (parking without valid permit) in resident bay - 13 PCNs & appeals rejected
« Reply #127 on: October 01, 2024, 04:05:20 pm »
You've already paid for one PCN. The PCN paid at the pound at £65 plus the £200 tow charge. Please dont pay any more for now.

And you need to get an appeal for that paid PCN consolidated with the 13 others. So the Adjudicator has sight of all the PCNs.

Also do you physically have the original copy of PCN 14, the one that your sister paid at the pound?
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Enceladus

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Re: Haringey Code 12r (parking without valid permit) in resident bay - 13 PCNs & appeals rejected
« Reply #128 on: October 01, 2024, 04:07:23 pm »
Quote from: cp8759 on October 01, 2024, 04:02:39 pm
Quote from: Enceladus on October 01, 2024, 03:15:26 pm
@cp8759
You've apparently been helping with that 14th PCN
@Enceladus yes towing PCN is listed for a hearing on 24 October.
I would request a postponement so it can be consolidated with the other 13. Especially as the other 13 appear to pre-date it. And it appears likely to be the PCN referenced in all 13 NoRs as being challenged before an NTO was served. Shows that the Council official doesn't really understand how a challenge and appeal against a PCN & tow is handled, there never would be an NTO.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2024, 04:14:34 pm by Enceladus »
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inst1nct103

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Re: Haringey Code 12r (parking without valid permit) in resident bay - 13 PCNs & appeals rejected
« Reply #129 on: October 01, 2024, 05:01:43 pm »
Comments noted. I won't pay for the first PCN.

@Enceladus - consolidation makes sense The PCN number is ZN12536367 issued on 31/05/2024 11:14.

Based on comments in the thread, I just sent an appeal letter directly with the image of the PCN receipt paid at the pound all in (text here) to the address as a means to challenge. They responded saying it is too late to appeal:



From that point @cp8759 stepped into to represent.
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