Author Topic: Haringey, 52(M) failing to comply with certain types of vehicle, Gordon Rd N11 (near junction Bounds Green Rd)  (Read 2078 times)

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Ok thanks, good to know. Will post council reply / rejection when it arrives.

Hi, rejection letter as predicted has arrived (27th Nov). Will try to upload letter which is saved as PDF.
Can anyone please kindly advise as to whether it's still worth carrying on to adjudication or pay up while still at reduced rate (letter dated Thursday 24th Nov and arrived Monday 27th so have until 10th December?).
Thanks.

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Okay bunny_hop:  please post up the full formal representations. When I see them, and if they have failed to consider, I am happy to represent you at the tribunal. Clearly there is an issue with the timing period in which to serve a C.C. and if they failed to consider it, that is the end of it in my view.

Meanwhile, their comments about the C.C. baffle me.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2023, 04:05:17 pm by Hippocrates »
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

Thanks Hippocrates for reply - sorry for delay in responding.
I've not gone through this process to adjudication before so not familiar with all the terminology I'm afraid. When you say post up full formal representations - do you mean when I've written up the details of appeal on the notice of appeal form?

What do you mean if they have failed to consider? Plus thanks for offering to represent me at tribunal.

What is my appeal argument? Do I repeat what I wrote to the council  - that the PCN does not comply (stated date of notice rather than date of service), and add that I found the one warning sign before entering the LTN (and the lack of anymore warning signs) on my approach turning into the road, to be inadequate?

Hopefully I can complete the form and post up tomorrow.

Thanks in advance for any guidance.

I need to see the representations in full please. Please do not do anything yet. And see my post below.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2023, 11:17:30 am by Hippocrates »
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

The PCN is invalid as it says they can send a charge certificate 28 days after the pcn date when it is 28 days after service. Just tell Haringey that, ignore anything about the way you drove.

(8)A penalty charge notice under this section must—
(a)state—
(i)the grounds on which the council or, as the case may be, Transport for London believe that the penalty charge is payable with respect to the vehicle;
(ii)the amount of the penalty charge which is payable;
(iii)that the penalty charge must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of the notice;
(iv)that if the penalty charge is paid before the end of the period of 14 days beginning with the date of the notice, the amount of the penalty charge will be reduced by the specified proportion;
(v)that, if the penalty charge is not paid before the end of the 28 day period, an increased charge may be payable;
(vi)the amount of the increased charge;
(vii)the address to which payment of the penalty charge must be sent; and
(viii)that the person on whom the notice is served may be entitled to make representations under paragraph 1 of Schedule 1 to this Act; and
(b)specify the form in which any such representations are to be made.

******************************

Charge certificates
5(1)Where a penalty charge notice is served on any person and the penalty charge to which it relates is not paid before the end of the relevant period, the enforcing authority may serve on that person a statement (in this paragraph referred to as a “charge certificate”) to the effect that the penalty charge in question is increased by 50 per cent.
(2)The relevant period, in relation to a penalty charge notice is the period of 28 days beginning—
(a)where no representations are made under paragraph 1 above, with the date on which the penalty charge notice is served;
(b)where such representations are made and a notice of rejection is served by the enforcing authority and no appeal against the notice of rejection is made with the date on which the period within which an appeal could have been made expires; or
(c)where there has been an unsuccessful appeal against a notice of rejection, with the date on which notice of the adjudicator’s decision is served on the appellant.
(3)Where an appeal against a notice of rejection is made but is withdrawn before the decision of the adjudicator is made the relevant period in relation to a penalty charge notice is the period of 14 days beginning with the date on which the appeal is withdrawn.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2023, 08:25:32 pm by Hippocrates »
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

This would be a very technical appeal.  I believe they have not failed to consider from what I have seen.
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

Hi again.
So are you saying you don't think it's worth going ahead to adjudication then? Haringey have fully considered or they haven't ?

When you say technical - do you mean in terms of PCN wording or something else?
Is it worth stating my case about lack of / inadequate warning signs about entering a LTN?

Thanks

I am saying that this is a very technical appeal which could go either way at the Tribunal.  It is my duty to say this. I am awaiting the chief expert's view very soon.  He is very busy but I will speak with him tomorrow personally about your case,

IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r


I am clear that the 3 line paragraph above the 2 alleged contravention images on the front of the PCN makes the PCn non-compliant and am 90+% certain I would win at the tribunal. I'm really 100% sure but sometimes something does go wrong. In 2023 I have had 97 tribunal Appeal in person hearings. I have lost 9 of them.

The Notice of Rejection also gets the legislation wrong. The 2003 Act contained what is essentially a flaw. It says 'must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of the notice' and 'representations received after the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which the penalty charge notice was served'. Clearly therefore an increased value and a charge certificate cannot apply until the later date and the council have said the earlier date. They have got themselves cornered. The argument simply needs to be clearly presented to an adjudicator who will have seen similar before.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2023, 01:02:28 pm by mrmustard »
I help you pro bono (for free). I now ask that a £40 donation is made to the North London Hospice before I take over your case. I have an 85% success rate across 2,000 PCNs but some PCNs can't be beaten and I will tell you if your case looks hopeless before asking you to donate.

Ok thanks Mr Mustard. I don't think I'd be able to clearly present it myself as it is too convoluted for me - so if either yourself or Hippocrates would be happy to help with the adjudication / representation, that would be much appreciated.

So what do I write on the appeal form which has to be sent for adjudication - and should I get it in sooner rather than later (i.e. before the 14 days discount limit which may or may not be around 11th December or 19th December according to the key events timetable on Haringey's portal - linked in on one of my previous posts).

Thank you.

I'm happy to do it (email me on mrmustard@zoho.com) I don't think Hippocrates will mind and I have history with Haringey as they had to change the wording on this document because I challenged it before and won, so they changed it and got something else wrong! Also, I am already physically at the tribunal every week so no bother to do one more.
I help you pro bono (for free). I now ask that a £40 donation is made to the North London Hospice before I take over your case. I have an 85% success rate across 2,000 PCNs but some PCNs can't be beaten and I will tell you if your case looks hopeless before asking you to donate.


No worries.  Good to speak earlier.
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r