Author Topic: PCN Red Route Ilford  (Read 440 times)

0 Members and 129 Guests are viewing this topic.

PCN Red Route Ilford
« on: »
Hello all,

Sorry i am posting this late, have not been home past week and a bit so catching up now, i believe i only have two or so days to appeal this within the 14 day period.

My mother drove the car with my sister, they thought the maps was taking them the wrong way, my sister re routed when they got on the main road and maps then pointed to drive in the opposite direction they came from. I realise its also a red route and there are some issues with them but not sure if that make any difference in this instance.

Have attached the PCN

Can anything be done about it or shall we pay up?

Thanks for your time

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

Share on Bluesky Share on Facebook


Re: PCN Red Route Ilford
« Reply #1 on: »
Video shows you stopped for about 9 seconds that doesn't seem verry long, but is probably not what an adjudicator would consider de minimis. You also went onto the pavement, so could have been walloped for that instead, it being an offence to park off-carriageway in London since the 70s.

To be frank, the contravention itself would seem to be made out, but that is not necessarily game over. Experts on here are very much up-to-speed on camera approvals and so on and can find arguments to support an appeal to the adjudicators. Remember that the council have to obey the law just like you have to, so if they err in doing so they cannot enforce the PCN, it's as simple as that.

So wait a bit to see what others say but don't miss the deadline to submit representations on the PCN.  We usually always recommend submitting representations as councils can err when responding. If you submit reps within the discount period, the discount is usually always re-offered when they respond by rejecting those reps, so you lose nothing.

Re: PCN Red Route Ilford
« Reply #2 on: »
Thank you for your reply

I believe today is the last day to submit reps within the discounted period.

I do also think that I may just have to pay, I think my mum stopped for those 9 seconds to confirm the route and then turned around.

Hopefully someone is able to help soon otherwise I might just chance it with the appeal and see what happens

Re: PCN Red Route Ilford
« Reply #3 on: »
We always suggest that representations are submitted, rather than just 'coughing-up' straightaway. So submit reps on the basis of a minimal stop of less than 10 seconds to check route, due to doubt. Post up their response when you get it, and then further investigations can be done during the re-offered discount period.

Re: PCN Red Route Ilford
« Reply #4 on: »
I have submitted an appeal as to the advice you have given

I shall come back when I get a response

Re: PCN Red Route Ilford
« Reply #5 on: »
@unknowndriver Transport for London have come to the rescue!

It was held in Transport for London, R (on the application of) v London Tribunals (Environment and Traffic Adjudicators) [2023] EWHC 2889 (Admin) that double red lines require an upright sign for CCTV enforcement to be permitted (see paragraph 17).

In this case as there is no upright sign, the definition of a red route found in regulation 11 of The Civil Enforcement of Road Traffic Contraventions (Approved Devices, Charging Guidelines and General Provisions) (England) Regulations 2022 is not met, so service of a postal PCN is a procedural impropriety.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order