Author Topic: Hackney, 52m Failure to comply with motor vehicle prohibition, Pritchard's Rd  (Read 1435 times)

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Hello,

Thank you all in advance for your time and advice. The company I'm hiring a car from have received a PCN (code 52m) involving my vehicle. They have sent Representation to Hackney notifying them of my details as the hirer then forwarded a copy of this and the PCN to me.

The PCN is for entering a motor vehicle prohibited zone. The photo stills make it appear like I've just driven out of the prohibited area of Pritchard's Road, but the video shows I may have briefly entered it while making a reverse turn. 

I was looking for a place to park close to the venue I attended that evening as I'm a Blue Badge holder. My initial plan to park on Broadway Market was blocked by barriers despite signs indicating vehicles are permitted after 8pm, so I went to try Regent's Row instead. However, I quickly discovered it was a narrow 'No Through' road already full with parked cars and other obstructions like the bike dock, bins, and if my memory serves me correctly, an oncoming car.

It was an unfamiliar road and I didn't know when I'd next be able to safely turn around. From what I could see, it looked more difficult further down the road and I couldn't tell if more obstructions lay around the corner. Continuing in that direction would have also taken me too far from where I wanted to be, so I decided to return the way I had come, which was via Broadway Market.

This was now blocked by the white van who wanted to turn into Regent's Row where I was. To stop obstructing the van, I reversed approximately 5m or less into the entrance of Pritchard's Road. I cannot remember if I could easily see the signs on this road from where I was on Regent's Row as my concentration was focused on ensuring the cyclists had passed before I started my manoeuvre.

After reversing, I had to wait for the van to make the turn before I could continue my own journey unobstructed too and I was able to safely move off again in less than 10 seconds.

My only alternative would have been reversing straight back onto Andrews Road, but this would have meant reversing for longer than necessary and potentially into oncoming traffic partially hidden by the van and the road decline.


Do you think I have a case for getting the penalty charge cancelled? Also, the hire company say I do not need to act until I get a notice directly from Hackney. Is that right, and if so would it be better to wait or appeal now?


Here is the letter from the car hire company which included a copy of the PCN and a copy of the representation they returned to Hackney. Council photo and video evidence can be found here too:

https://imgur.com/a/XoZsovD

Location:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/xHu5DGBEmv2i8Nqo7


Thanks so much again, your time and advice are greatly appreciated.

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To answer your last question. You currently have no standing in the matter because the PCN is addressed to the hire company. Please wait until you actually receive a PCN in the post addressed to you at your address. That's the PCN that you make representations (challenge) against.

You should receive it before the 22nd October. Post an image of the PCN on here when you get it. All of the pages and redact your name & address, please leave everything else visible.

Is there a video of the contravention?

The reversing manoeuvre is clear on the video but it's not a given that they'll cancel as you did go half-way past the signs but I think if they were to push this to the tribunal you would win.

As said you need the PCN in your own name. You may also be charged an admin fee by the hire firm, which is though doing what it should do.


That has to be the most money-grubbing PCN I have ever seen. Shame on you, Hackney Council for your rapacity and venality !! I would have no hesitation in taking this to London Tribunals.

Thank you for all the replies so far. I'm glad you all also think I have a case! I've received the notice directly from the council now, so was just wondering how I'd go about challenging it. Would I just repeat what I wrote in my original message?

Thanks again for your time.

What's the date of issue of the postal PCN?

Might be best to post up all pages of the PCN in case there's anything useful in the small print. Just redact or obscure your name and address.

And yes, please convert your opening post into a draft formal representation and post it up for scrutiny.

Thanks. I'll get a draft written up ASAP.
The date of the postal notice is 7th October.

I did already share all the pages of the original PCN received by the hire company here: https://imgur.com/a/XoZsovD
The one sent to me is exactly the same, only with my name/address instead of theirs and none of the details on the representation page filled in yet.

Ask the hire company if they received a written Notice of Acceotance (NoA) of representations cancelling the original PCN.

Ask the hire company if they received a written Notice of Acceotance (NoA) of representations cancelling the original PCN.

Hi John, I was able to call the hire company today. They received a letter on the 10th October telling them responsibility for the PCN is being transferred to another person/organisation. I've uploaded the letter here: https://imgur.com/a/3vRbpXa

Ask the hire company if they received a written Notice of Acceotance (NoA) of representations cancelling the original PCN.

Hi John, I was able to call the hire company today. They received a letter on the 10th October telling them responsibility for the PCN is being transferred to another person/organisation. I've uploaded the letter here:





I am not sure the wording is specific enough to constitute a Notice of Acceptance cancelling the first PCN but others will know.

If the wording isn't specific enough to constitute a NoA, what would that mean? Would my letter of representations then be based on denying to take responsibility?

The Act:

8)Where the ground that is accepted is that mentioned in sub-paragraph (4)(d) [hired vehicle] above, the person hiring the vehicle shall be deemed to be its owner for the purposes of this Act.

Cancellation of penalty charge notice
2(1)Where representations are made under paragraph 1 above and the enforcing authority accept that the ground in question has been established they shall—

(a)cancel the penalty charge notice; and

(b)state in the notice served under sub-paragraph (7) of paragraph 1 above that the penalty charge notice has been cancelled.

(2)The cancellation of a penalty charge notice under this paragraph shall not be taken to prevent the enforcing authority serving a fresh penalty charge notice on another person.

Actual words are not required, but the correct meaning must be conveyed clearly.

The letter says: '..we are transferring responsibility to another person.....'.  OK, this is followed by what might be considered an equivocal statement about reviewing the matter but IMO this is nothing more than a statement of the legal position which I believe means that if the keeper knowingly provided the council with false documents then, notwithstanding any acceptance of those reps, the council would still be able to pursue the keeper. But others might throw more light on this. 

Quote
I did already share all the pages of the original PCN received by the hire company here: https://imgur.com/a/XoZsovD
The one sent to me is exactly the same, only with my name/address instead of theirs and none of the details on the representation page filled in yet.


The number on the original PCN is PCN QZ17185364 - is that the same as on the PCN with yr name & address?
What are the dates on the new PCN?
It would be best if you post up the front page of the new PCN, as Enceladus suggested.

Quote
I did already share all the pages of the original PCN received by the hire company here: https://imgur.com/a/XoZsovD
The one sent to me is exactly the same, only with my name/address instead of theirs and none of the details on the representation page filled in yet.


The number on the original PCN is PCN QZ17185364 - is that the same as on the PCN with yr name & address?
What are the dates on the new PCN?
It would be best if you post up the front page of the new PCN, as Enceladus suggested.

Yeah, it's the same number. The new PCN is dated 7th October and I've now uploaded the front page as requested here: https://imgur.com/a/Nusu7VB

A question for the experts: if the original PCN has been cancelled, should the new PCN have a new number or does it not matter?