Free Traffic Legal Advice

If you look back along the road to the previous bus lane, it has a sign for a bus lane with a bicycle symbol below the bus symbol: -
https://goo.gl/maps/Z43T2nrqMs9izaKL9
But then all you have are Cycle Lane signs
https://goo.gl/maps/gr2X3z7izbKzdoFE7
and
https://goo.gl/maps/tLmzC5Qa29NnRzcF8
For me, this is extremely poor practice, because bicycles are allowed in the bus lane, so it is very confusing, especially as one can still see the road markings for the cycle lane that was there before the bus lane.See GSV of July 2019 here: -
https://goo.gl/maps/qv6mshWuJAYX2uQ67
It looks like the Highways Department have completely cocked-up the installation of this bus lane.

Correct signage would have the cycle lane signs replaced with bus lane signs with a symbol of a bicycle below the bus symbol.

The other aspect is that it was recently discovered that none of the London bus lane cameras complied with the law, not being approved by the Secretary of State, and a lot of appeals were won at London Tribunals.  However, as you can imagine with the potential loss of lots of lovely dosh, there has been a mad dash by London councils to get them approved.  However, whether this one that they used to whallop you with is so certified, I'm not sure. Somebody on here may know. If it isn't it is a slam-dunk win at London Tribunals.

However, are you prepared to take them to London Tribunals ? It is a double-or-quits gamble because you lose the discount option.

If you look back along the road to the previous bus lane, it has a sign for a bus lane with a bicycle symbol below the bus symbol: -
https://goo.gl/maps/Z43T2nrqMs9izaKL9
But then all you have are Cycle Lane signs
https://goo.gl/maps/tLmzC5Qa29NnRzcF8
and
https://goo.gl/maps/tLmzC5Qa29NnRzcF8
For me, this is extremely poor practice, because bicycles are allowed in the bus lane, so it is very confusing, especially as one can still see the road markings for the cycle lane that was there before the bus lane.See GSV of July 2019 here: -
https://goo.gl/maps/qv6mshWuJAYX2uQ67
It looks like the Highways Department have completely cocked-up the installation of this bus lane.

Correct signage would have the cycle lane signs replaced with bus lane signs with a symbol of a bicycle below the bus symbol.

The other aspect is that it was recently discovered that none of the London bus lane cameras complied with the law, not being approved by the Secretary of State, and a lot of appeals were won at London Tribunals.  However, as you can imagine with the potential loss of lots of lovely dosh, there has been a mad dash by London councils to get them approved.  However, whether this one that they used to whallop you with is so certified, I'm not sure. Somebody on here may know. If it isn't it is a slam-dunk win at London Tribunals.

However, are you prepared to take them to London Tribunals ? It is a double-or-quits gamble because you lose the discount option.

Thank you Incandescent , the signs are a little confusing and was wondering whether the bus lane sign in the middle of the 2 roads is correct ?

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1167140/approved-devices-granted-to-local-authorities.ods

They do have a new certificate since February.  Only Bromley and Hackney do not have.  The latter will sort it out shortly:  their manufacturer has one but the council doesn't!

The two cases DNCed by members of pepipoo were taken to the Tribunal and Greenwich claimed staff shortage.  In fact, they had no certificate at all though their NORs said they did!  This story will develop.

Hi evening all,

Manage to get a video of the drive.  Seems the road works has been ongoing for some time along the whole road in general with signs "bus lane closed" prior to my video starting, should have taken a video but didn't know how far back to go or how useful that might be.

Please see video, seems the signs are the same and the drawing of cycles? In the middle of the bus lane next to the bus stop.
30 secs into video if want to skip straight to start signs

Your video shows bus lane signs on the offside, which seems to address the main issue around adequacy.

At this point the camera approval issue might be the strongest point, but we'll have to wait to confirm the make and model of the camera. The fact that the council has a recent certificate is not conclusive, as illustrated in the parking case of Imran Akhtar Ali v London Borough of Redbridge (2230298285, 05 August 2023).

Another angle is that the wrong location is stated on the PCN:, the PCN says Maryon Park but the CCTV camera is on South Lake Roundabout, and the bus lane in question is on the part of Woolwich Road between Charlton Lane and South Lake Roundabout, which is not adjacent to Maryon Park at all.

Give others a couple of days to comment but I'm minded to draft something based on the location issue, and while we wait for the informal rejection I should get confirmation of the camera make and model.

Thank you CP, would you mind to see if the drive video youtube upload can be embedded into the post for some reason my post didn't come out right.

Well noticed regarding the location as I didn't think it was that important as it was somewhat still nearby.

Would you need me to do anything - let me know? thank you for your help 

If there's no further comments in 2 / 3 days, bump the thread and I'll draft something for you.

thank you CP for embedding the video. hopefully have some comments if you please do what you need to do


thank you again

OP--getting the "bus lane closed" photos would be worthwhile.

I see the bus lane sign at 0.35 of the video but regardless of it being in the wrong place (according to the Traffic Signs Manual(TSM) Chapter 3 “a sign should normally be placed just beyond each side road.”) it's effect as a singleton repeater sign is weakened by the fact that there is nothing in the nearside lane beyond the roundabout.

I still have reservations about the start of the bus lane since the sign is situated on the roundabout and the actual taper for the bus lane extends into the roundabout. The TSM indicates at 9.3.3. --”The bus lane should not start in such a position that the marking to diagram 1010 would extend across a side road junction”. IMO that ruling applies here.

Whilst there is the broad white line which the Council will emphasise I still regard the signage to be inadequate.

Mike