Author Topic: Gloucester PCN Parked Longer Than Permitted  (Read 410 times)

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Gloucester PCN Parked Longer Than Permitted
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1. Gloucestershire County Council PCN - Parked Longer Than Permitted, Union Street, Gloucester.

2. I work in the area and have done for many years, often parking in this location without issue every other week for at least 10 years and as recently as just last Saturday 30th September.
This week, 7th October, I received a PCN on my windscreen for parking longer than permitted.  I had no idea any restriction had been imposed.  I parked at approximately 9.50am and returned at 15:45pm.

3. Pictures of the PCN and signage here https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1WPxLvBDpMiAK70K-_odjpqQNFsBGY6T6?usp=share_link

4. GSV here https://maps.app.goo.gl/6gpcFYiutDANdDnr6.

I admit I unwittingly overstayed.  I am just asking if there are any grounds to appeal based on the wording of the PCN or the fact that the restriction seems to be based on a Zone J rather than a road.

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Re: Gloucester PCN Parked Longer Than Permitted
« Reply #1 on: »
The PCN is misleading in the section "How to challenge".

It states in the 3rd paragraph: -
Quote
"If challenges against the PCN are received at the specified address before the NTO is served they will be considered; however, once an NTO is served, any further representations must be made in the form and manner and at the time specified in the NTO"

The Civil Enforcement of Road Traffic Contraventions (Representations and Appeals) (England) Regulations 2022 state, (in Chapter 1)
Quote
Information to be included in regulation 9 penalty charge notices and enforcement notices
Information about right to make representations or appeal to be included in regulation 9 penalty charge notices and enforcement notices
3.—(1) A regulation 9 penalty charge notice must include the following information—

(a)that a person on whom a notice to owner is served may, in accordance with these Regulations, make representations to the enforcement authority against the penalty charge and, if those representations are rejected, appeal to an adjudicator;
(b)that if, before a notice to owner is served, representations against the penalty charge are received at such address as may be specified in the notice for the purpose those representations will be considered by the enforcement authority;
(c)that if a notice to owner is served despite the representations mentioned in sub-paragraph (b), representations against the penalty charge must be made to the enforcement authority in the form and manner and at the time specified in the notice to owner.
I have marked in bold the relevant item of mandatory information. You can see that Gloucester, for reasons only known to themselves, have cast aside this sentence and put in their own which has a different meaning. They refer to "further representations" thus implying that if you have already submitted a representation, (your informal challenge) and are happy with it and have no more things to add, that there is no need to submit any representations against the Notice to Owner.  This is highly misleading, because it is essential that a Notice to Owner is either paid or representations made; doing nothing is not an option.

For me, this is a procedural impropriety in that the information mandated to be included has not been included in the PCN.

Re: Gloucester PCN Parked Longer Than Permitted
« Reply #2 on: »
In the first instance I would contact the council and ask for the photos. The council is required to provide adequate signage, but this bay is 57 yards in length and they've only put one sign at the northwestern end here: https://maps.app.goo.gl/ZsgCWdiYrgspiDJf9

If you were parked at the other end, you wouldn't have seen this sign, and the guidance from the department for transport is that in a long bay like this there should be a sign at either end, plus repeater signs at least once every 32 yards.

A single sign for a bay this long is wholly inadequate but as ever, the starting point is to get the council photos as they will confirm the strength of your case. I don't think Gloucestershire puts the photos online, so you'll have to contact them and ask for the photos to be emailed over to you.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: Gloucester PCN Parked Longer Than Permitted
« Reply #3 on: »
I didn't make the point before, so I will now.
My last post outlined what I think is a procedural impropriety in the PCN content. It is important to bear in mind that councils never accept this, as it obviously reflects on their own management, so will reject the argument, thus forcing you to stand your ground and take them to adjudication.
The inadequate signage argument suggested by CP8759 directly challenges their signing practices. Of ocourse they will reply with what I call a Fob-Off letter. However, we're not at that stage yet !

Re: Gloucester PCN Parked Longer Than Permitted
« Reply #4 on: »
I have requested photos from GCC which arrived today. I have added them to the folder linked in the OP.


Re: Gloucester PCN Parked Longer Than Permitted
« Reply #5 on: »
The signing is acceptable IMO, your parking place, and it is separate, is no more than 5 cars' length.

You overstayed because you didn't know the significance of the parking place road markings therefore did not consult the sign at all. Yes? As we know from pepipoo, the changes were introduced around July, so if you parked after this then either you've been very fortunate or the council did not enforce until ***. This in itself could be a line because normal practice would be to issue warning notices for a period. But you're implying that none was served on this car.

Also, are you the registered keeper because it's pretty certain GCC would reject informal reps and therefore the real battle would be fought at the Notice to Owner and subsequent stages.

Re: Gloucester PCN Parked Longer Than Permitted
« Reply #6 on: »
I am not the registered keeper. The vehicle is leased.

Re: Gloucester PCN Parked Longer Than Permitted
« Reply #7 on: »
I am not the registered keeper. The vehicle is leased.

What are the terms of your lease agreement re settling PCNs?

Re: Gloucester PCN Parked Longer Than Permitted
« Reply #8 on: »
So you were actually parked here: https://maps.app.goo.gl/p74sUJFHiNuMcWGx9

I agree it's quite a short bay and your car would have been quite close to the sign. So you got out, did you then look for any signs?

Traffic order: https://tro.trafficpenaltytribunal.gov.uk/TRO/Gloucestershire/GD15.pdf

Map tile: https://store.traffweb.app/gloucestershire/documents/parkmap/msched/BL109_rv3Q_1.pdf

As John might have hinted, the terms and conditions of the lease (and the council's failure to understand these) might be your best bet, so we need to see the terms and conditions of the agreement. Also is it a personal lease, or is it leased to your employer?
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order