Author Topic: Glasgow City Council Waiting when prohibited Carmunnock Road  (Read 1119 times)

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Re: Glasgow City Council Waiting when prohibited Carmunnock Road
« Reply #30 on: »
Sorry, but IMO it doesn't.

It's a sign on its own. Loading other than in a no loading zone needs blips. The extent of the part-time waiting restriction is shown by the SYL, but where are the kerb blips??

OP, if the location on Carmunnock is within a zone, then post those zone signs- we know it is not within a zone because if it was then these signs would be back-to-back with the side-roads sign. And they're not, what's there is 'Zone ends'!

If it isn't then the contravention did not occur.

IMO this has nothing to do with event days, it's far more basic: no blip or zone entrance signs marked no loading = no contravention.

Edit- this is particularly concerning for BB holders because they're exempt from  'no waiting' for up to 3 hours and therefore wouldn't even need to look for the sign, they'd just park, display their BB, wander off and possibly return to an unjustified PCN.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2024, 10:42:09 am by H C Andersen »

Re: Glasgow City Council Waiting when prohibited Carmunnock Road
« Reply #31 on: »
Well, I think we can agree there is more than enough to take to the Scottish adjudicator.

Re: Glasgow City Council Waiting when prohibited Carmunnock Road
« Reply #32 on: »
Appeal submitted lets hope for the best. Thanks for your help guys and I will keep you guys updated.

Re: Glasgow City Council Waiting when prohibited Carmunnock Road
« Reply #33 on: »
Appeal submitted lets hope for the best. Thanks for your help guys and I will keep you guys updated.
Good luck. We're rooting for you !

Re: Glasgow City Council Waiting when prohibited Carmunnock Road
« Reply #34 on: »
Hello all, hope you are well. UPDATE FROM COUNCIL, THEY HAVE NOW UPLOADED ALL THEIR EVIDENCE. Feel free to scrutinise every detail, as I can add these comments on to the case. The next step is for an outcome to be decided with or without a hearing and I have to make this choice by the 30/08/2024. There is a lot of evidence I know but let's break it down and stick to the key points guys and decide the next steps forward. The council have added comments to some of the evidence they have provided and I can share with you these if required. Thank you.

https://imgur.com/a/DxkWoak

Re: Glasgow City Council Waiting when prohibited Carmunnock Road
« Reply #35 on: »
We really need to see their comments/narrative, because what you've posted doesn't really tell us much in relation to the PCN. The photos are all dated 22nd June, but unlabelled, so we don't know if the sign by your car is one of them.

Re: Glasgow City Council Waiting when prohibited Carmunnock Road
« Reply #36 on: »
Certainly I can provide this,
https://scts-production-eu-west-1.s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/production/uploads/attachment/source/1a8b13e6-b059-4cc9-9354-6a06e0600121/Signage.pdf?X-Amz-Expires=600&X-Amz-Date=20240824T184944Z&X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Credential=AKIAWMK4S55LXX4EB32K/20240824/eu-west-1/s3/aws4_request&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&X-Amz-Signature=d3275f752ee8cd0898000ae6bc31c63d63e558490918b02214db94355f7fdcb2
Under the signs the comment says, "Photographs. Example of the signs erected on 22/06/2024 advising of the Event at Hampden on Fri 28th & sat 29th June 2pm-midnight". Very general and no mention of which one was at Carmunnock street.

https://scts-production-eu-west-1.s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/production/uploads/attachment/source/f8d43570-dca9-4f14-b1ba-6e0046064d44/Images.pdf?X-Amz-Expires=600&X-Amz-Date=20240824T185745Z&X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Credential=AKIAWMK4S55LXX4EB32K/20240824/eu-west-1/s3/aws4_request&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&X-Amz-Signature=d3da88c411429e608a7bc9140003c897ebb91c6078b8539dc44de9ecdb984e6b
Under this one it says, "Photographs of Appellant's vehicle which shows the Penalty Charge Notice placed under the windscreen wiper. The removal of a Penalty Charge Notice from a vehicle by an unauthorised person does not invalidate the charge. Photograph no. 2 is of the informative plate situated at the vehicle advising motorists of the event on Fri 28th & Sat 29th June 2pm-midnight." Again essentially repeating the notice of rejection.

https://tro.transportappeals.scot/TRO/Glasgow%20City%20Council/20122f14-Hampden-Park-Emergency-Route.pdf
Under this, it says: "Refer to Schedule 1, Carmunnock Road, Item 1 of the attached Order."

https://scts-production-eu-west-1.s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/production/uploads/attachment/source/d957f6a0-7785-4acf-9705-8f1051e0cb4a/Authorisation.pdf?X-Amz-Expires=600&X-Amz-Date=20240824T190926Z&X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Credential=AKIAWMK4S55LXX4EB32K/20240824/eu-west-1/s3/aws4_request&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&X-Amz-Signature=548c0a3b98af97b5aa24b08568e0b31c87caec6bbd704121ffc08ed9c52dd15b
The comment for this mentions, "Authorisation of Traffic Signs Hampden Park-Traffic Management Scheme Restricted Permit Zone Without Yellow Road Markings.
Page1. Point 2. states "that markings to diagram number 1017, 1018.1, 1019 and 1020.1 of the Traffic Signs Regulations 2002 need not be used in conjunction with the authorised signs."

Re: Glasgow City Council Waiting when prohibited Carmunnock Road
« Reply #37 on: »
Hello guys, just wondering if you have had a look into the evidence and if there is anything I can do to dispute their evidence before the court hearing. Thank you.

Re: Glasgow City Council Waiting when prohibited Carmunnock Road
« Reply #38 on: »
OP, I read the authorisation as meaning that there must be zone entry signs on WHITE background which set the boundaries of the scheme area with the use of the yellow signs giving detailed info.

But there aren't any WHITE signs at the zone entry at the junction of Cordiner and Carmunnock, but there is a Zone Ends sign.

There is nothing new about dispensing with yellow lines and kerb blips, it happens all the time in Restricted Parking Zones:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/1/made

"restricted parking zone”
   an area—
(a)
into which each entrance for vehicular traffic has been indicated by a sign which includes the symbol and legend at item 2 of the sign table in Part 3 of Schedule 5; and

(b)
in which none of the road markings at items 1 to 4 of the sign table in Part 4 of Schedule 7 has been placed [these are DYL, SYL, double and single kerb blips].


But they must be signed with white signs in order to be lawful.

Re: Glasgow City Council Waiting when prohibited Carmunnock Road
« Reply #39 on: »
Thank you HCA, before I submit my final comments and evidence to the council is there anything else I should add? Let me know guys.