3. Fine 2mts late Westminster, Code 31, Entering & Stopping in Box Junction: Bayswater road jn with Westbourne Street
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Fine 2mts late Westminster, Code 31, Entering & Stopping in Box Junction: Bayswater road jn with Westbourne Street
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Dear all,

1.TOPIC TITLE
Westminster Council, Code 31, Entering & Stopping in a Box Junction: Bayswater road junction with Westbourne Street

Fine arrived just now, almost 2 months since date of incident: 1st Nov 2025, only arrived in post few days agao in the post in the last week, I have been away for 1 week and just picked it up today 28/12/2025.

2. Outline of case: Video linked here, shows a coach was in front of me and impeding my view of the box junction. Also I was out of line of the traffic turning right and not impeding their flow by any means.

3. Links of video & 3 images
https://imgpile.com/p/fFUkz1q

QUESTION:
a) What can I say in the best words to explain I just received it?
b) Can I argue coach blocked my view of junction until too late?
c) Can I argue I was not blocking the movement of traffic despite stopping in part of the box
d) Anything else I can argue to release me of the fine?

Thank you
Sid



« Last Edit: December 28, 2025, 11:22:52 pm by sahandnaz »
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Re: Fine 2mts late Westminster, Code 31, Entering & Stopping in Box Junction: Bayswater road jn with Westbourne Street
« Reply #1 on: »
Are you the owner of the car and hold the V5C Registration Certificate ?

The council have 28 days to serve the PCN from contravention date, but if the car is leased or hired, will send the PCN to the company, not you. When the company advise of the hire lease arrangement, they will provide your name and address, and a second PCN will then be sent. Once the first PCN is cancelled, they then have another 28 days to send the second one.

If you hold the V5C, then the PCN has been served out-of-time.
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Re: Fine 2mts late Westminster, Code 31, Entering & Stopping in Box Junction: Bayswater road jn with Westbourne Street
« Reply #2 on: »
Hi and thank you, Yes I am the owner with the V5C.

The delay in receipt appears to be due to postage delays, as it was issued 11 days after the alleged contravention according to the paper, despite me only receiving it now almost 2 months later.

I imagine you were referring to cases where the council issues it 2 months later?

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Re: Fine 2mts late Westminster, Code 31, Entering & Stopping in Box Junction: Bayswater road jn with Westbourne Street
« Reply #3 on: »
Quote from: sahandnaz on December 28, 2025, 11:25:36 pm
Hi and thank you, Yes I am the owner with the V5C.

The delay in receipt appears to be due to postage delays, as it was issued 11 days after the alleged contravention according to the paper, despite me only receiving it now almost 2 months later.

I imagine you were referring to cases where the council issues it 2 months later?
Yes. So you must submit reps, because you are now well outside the period for paying the discounted amount. In fact you may be outside the period to pay as well, so make sure you submit reps asap, pointing out that due to postal delays you have only just received the PCN. If they refuse to accept them as they are too late, then you should not pay but wait for them to register the debt at the Traffic Penalty Tribunal and then submit a Statutory Declaration that you did not receive the PCN. OK, you did, but too late to do anything about it, so in law you didn't receive it because the law has restricted the period for responding. In the interim, they will serve a Charge Certificate that you also do not pay, just wait.

If  you are going to follow the above, keep us well informed on what is going on.
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Re: Fine 2mts late Westminster, Code 31, Entering & Stopping in Box Junction: Bayswater road jn with Westbourne Street
« Reply #4 on: »
Ok so it still allows me to pay the full amount £160.

Before I submit representations that the clock should be set back to the discounted rate because I didn't receive it until now, what else can i say in the representation to help me?

b) Can I argue coach blocked my view of junction until too late?
c) Can I argue I was not blocking the movement of traffic despite stopping in part of the box

Thank you
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Re: Fine 2mts late Westminster, Code 31, Entering & Stopping in Box Junction: Bayswater road jn with Westbourne Street
« Reply #5 on: »
(a) could be valid, but not (b), but the video shows a very clear contravention and by following the coach closely you seem to have missed the box. Indeed, you followed closely behind the large coach with no hesitation into the box. the coach then stopped on the other side of the box forcing you to stop in it.

There may be a 'technical' appeal based on Westminster mismanagement of the enforcement process. Such appeals have nothing to do with the actual contravention and are dealt with at London Tribunals with the full PCN penalty in play. So wait a bit to see what may be suggested, but don't miss any of the deadlines on the PCN, or it's game over.
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Re: Fine 2mts late Westminster, Code 31, Entering & Stopping in Box Junction: Bayswater road jn with Westbourne Street
« Reply #6 on: »
Incidently, the website still allows me to pay albeit at an increase fee of £240 and it's been approx 47 days since the notice was issued. I have now appealed stating simply: "Due to what appears to be delays in postage, I have only just received this PCN, I ask that the clock be restarted to allow me reasonable time to investigate this matter."

My plan when they write back is this, could admins advise please?

1) The side road joins the main road diagonally. There is a cycle lane on the left. There is a central island on the main road. The box junction should technically end where the central island starts as any extension beyond the central island serves no reasonable purpose. My car was situated beyond the island and did not create any obstruction to traffic turning right. Therefore my appeal should be allowed due to the size of the yellow box extending beyond what is reasonably required and importantly beyond the central island which acts as a traffic movement impedence in anycase.

2) Mitigating circumstances: Due to slow moving traffic, I was following the coach vehicle and it blocked my view of the yellow box. Entering and stopping in the last remains of the box was therefore beyond my control.

Thanks,
Sid
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Re: Fine 2mts late Westminster, Code 31, Entering & Stopping in Box Junction: Bayswater road jn with Westbourne Street
« Reply #7 on: »
I think the PCN misstates the period after which the council may increase the penalty charge from £160 to £240.

Under the LLA 2003, the PCN must state (amongst other things):

(iii)that the penalty charge must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of the notice;

(iv)that if the penalty charge is paid before the end of the period of 14 days beginning with the date of the notice, the amount of the penalty charge will be reduced by the specified proportion;

(v)that, if the penalty charge is not paid before the end of the 28 day period, an increased charge may be payable;

Your PCN states that the date from which an increased charge may be payable is 28 days from date of service of the PCN, instead of 28 days beginning with the date of the notice.
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Re: Fine 2mts late Westminster, Code 31, Entering & Stopping in Box Junction: Bayswater road jn with Westbourne Street
« Reply #8 on: »
So you are referring to the wording "date of service of PCN" as opposed to "date of notice". Are these things not the same thing?
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Re: Fine 2mts late Westminster, Code 31, Entering & Stopping in Box Junction: Bayswater road jn with Westbourne Street
« Reply #9 on: »
Quote from: sahandnaz on December 30, 2025, 12:14:41 am
So you are referring to the wording "date of service of PCN" as opposed to "date of notice". Are these things not the same thing?

Only in PCNs affixed to vehicles.
For a postal PCN:
it must be dated;
it must be posted on the date of the letter;
it is deemed served two working days after posting - the 'date of service', unless proved otherwise.
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Re: Fine 2mts late Westminster, Code 31, Entering & Stopping in Box Junction: Bayswater road jn with Westbourne Street
« Reply #10 on: »
Not the same thing. Your PCN seems to have been served weeks after the date of notice (albeit as John has pointed out there is a legal presumption it reaches you two business days after posting).
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Re: Fine 2mts late Westminster, Code 31, Entering & Stopping in Box Junction: Bayswater road jn with Westbourne Street
« Reply #11 on: »
UPDATE
I appealed some days ago stating simply: "Due to what appears to be delays in postage, I have only just received this PCN, I ask that the clock be restarted to allow me reasonable time to investigate this matter." I am still awaiting a response.

I also took advice from the 'Yellow Box Guru' who advised that I argue:
a) that the coach was blocking my view of the yellow box
b) that the box was faded and not visible from my driving seat (he advised I go back and take photos as the boxes are often much easier to view from the sky but faded from ground level.

Here are the photos showing a highly faded box from 1) my driving route and 2) from the side road. This should be winable correct? Should I still wait for a response to my initial appeal asking for more time?

2 PHOTOS HERE: https://imgpile.com/p/f34BXFD



« Last Edit: January 04, 2026, 11:23:50 pm by sahandnaz »
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Re: Fine 2mts late Westminster, Code 31, Entering & Stopping in Box Junction: Bayswater road jn with Westbourne Street
« Reply #12 on: »
Does look faded. Don't forget to include the issue with the PCN wording which makes it non compliant with the law.

Key thing is to get a notice of rejection from Westminster as otherwise you can't take it further.
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Re: Fine 2mts late Westminster, Code 31, Entering & Stopping in Box Junction: Bayswater road jn with Westbourne Street
« Reply #13 on: »
Dear experts, I replied on 29th December 2025 via email stating that:

"Due to what appears to be delays in postage, I have only just received this PCN, I ask that the clock be restarted to allow me reasonable time to investigate this matter."

I have not received a response still. Do I wait or do I just write an appeal letter?  I still don't understand what I need to say regarding the wording of the PCN being invalid. However, I have this response ready, please comment and advise me:

As per photos above:

Dear Westminster Council,

After seeking legal advise and investigating the matter, I would like to appeal that 'C: The Contravention did not occur', due to the following reasons

a) the large coach was blocking my view of the yellow box
b) the box was faded and not visible from my driving seat (the view from the sky may be visible but as clearly shown by photos attached above, the box was highly faded and not possible to discern from the ground level before entering it.

Two photos show a highly faded box from 1) my driving route and 2) from the side road.

Therefore I argue that the PCN is invalid and should be cancelled.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Kind regards,
xxxxxx

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