3. TFL, Contravention 46: stopped where prohibited, O/S 750-768 Bath Road TW5 Hounslow
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TFL, Contravention 46: stopped where prohibited, O/S 750-768 Bath Road TW5 Hounslow
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https://maps.app.goo.gl/cfJAUMw4subJTY6t6

We were visiting from outside of London to attend a funeral on this day and on the way back we had to stop at a pharmacy for an unwell passenger. The pharmacy was a few metres back and we were looking for a safe place to stop in this unfamiliar area and saw other cars parked in the same area. We didn't stop for more than 5-7 minutes, the engine was still running the whole time and people, including the driver, were in the car throughout. The sign read that parking was permitted until 4pm, however we didn't notice that were outside of this only by around 15 minutes.
Is there anything we can do about this? Any help would be greatly appreciated, thank you.

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Re: TFL, Contravention 46: stopped where prohibited, O/S 750-768 Bath Road TW5 Hounslow
« Reply #1 on: »
PCN timed at 16.19, so well outside any possible de minimis consideration, but it would still be a good idea to submit representations to Tfl. There are serious flaws with TfL management of enforcement so I expect you will soon hear from the experts on this aspect.  In addition, there was your unwell passenger who apparently needed something quickly from a pharmacy.

Unfortunately your narrative about people in the car, engine running, only 6-7 minutes is irrelevant, but being from outside London might get you a few plus points with TfL. Do be aware that TfL, like the London councils, make millions from parking enforcement, so are not usually minded to give way on arguments based on mitigation, as they want your money !

So don't pay yet, and wait for further advice, but don't miss the pay or appeal deadline date.
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Re: TFL, Contravention 46: stopped where prohibited, O/S 750-768 Bath Road TW5 Hounslow
« Reply #2 on: »
@bh2024 the PCN is dated 23 December 2024 so it is deemed served on Friday 27 December 2024, which is day 1 of 21. Therefore the discount cannot expire before 16 January 2025. If the PCN goes up to £160 at any point prior to midnight on 16 January 2025, you have a winning appeal on the ground that the penalty demanded exceeds the amount due in the circumstances of the case.

Contrary to what we say in most cases, you should not contact TFL at this time or do anything that might cause the PCN to be put on hold (chances are they haven't accounted for the bank holidays). There's a fair chance the penalty will unlawfully increase on the 15th or 16th January.

Further to this, TFL has various policies that deal with bereavement and illness, to this end please can you confirm:

1) your connection to the person whose funeral it was
2) what sort of illness the passenger was suffering from.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: TFL, Contravention 46: stopped where prohibited, O/S 750-768 Bath Road TW5 Hounslow
« Reply #3 on: »
@cp8759 Thank you very much for your response, so I understand that we should not contact TFL yet.  If they are to unlawfully raise the fine, what would the exact procedure be to appeal and what should be said?
Also, would you say there is a significant risk that the fine could be doubled and the appeal rejected?
To answer your questions, it was a close relative's funeral and the passenger was having a hay-fever flare up affecting his breathing.
Thanks
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Re: TFL, Contravention 46: stopped where prohibited, O/S 750-768 Bath Road TW5 Hounslow
« Reply #4 on: »
@bh2024 the penalty does not double, the penalty is £160. A 50% discount is offered to those who admit liability and pay up without making a fuss.

If the penalty goes up to the full amount of £160 before this is legally permitted, then you have a winning appeal under the statutory ground that the penalty demanded exceeds the amount due in the circumstances of the case (if this happens I will just draft a representation for you).

To cover all angles, we should have a representation ready to go on 17 January in case the penalty is still £80 at that stage, TFL will normally freeze the penalty at that rate if you make a representation before it goes up.

What was your exact relation to the person whose funeral it was? Can you get hold of the death certificate, or maybe the order of service for the funeral?

What is the passenger's relation to the person whose funeral it was, and would hayfever appear in their medical records, for instance if they even brought it up with their GP?
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: TFL, Contravention 46: stopped where prohibited, O/S 750-768 Bath Road TW5 Hounslow
« Reply #5 on: »
Thsnk you cp8759 . Today is the 15th of January, I logged in TFL website and the penalty charge already is £160. According to you previous advise this is a winning appeal.  What should we do now . Your help is very much appreciated.
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