Author Topic: Entering and stopping in a box junction  (Read 1150 times)

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Entering and stopping in a box junction
« on: »
& again..  :'(

Any grounds of appeal for the below?

City of Westminister

Entering & stopping in a box junction when prohibited (Camera enforcement)

https://ibb.co/kSwMS7W
https://ibb.co/L6f6zwt
https://ibb.co/gMmjYwS
https://ibb.co/wcgfw4N
https://ibb.co/DrVvkTn


PCN :

https://ibb.co/MCRSGmX
https://ibb.co/3TTsXnW
https://ibb.co/Yb9psKQ

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Re: Entering and stopping in a box junction
« Reply #1 on: »
post the video not stills from it

The date for payment quoted on the PCN is wrong and that alone can be a winner
« Last Edit: February 06, 2024, 04:54:24 pm by Pastmybest »

Re: Entering and stopping in a box junction
« Reply #2 on: »
+1 The PCN is unenforceable.
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

Re: Entering and stopping in a box junction
« Reply #3 on: »
I've watched the video.  I assume you are the car turning left out of the box? If so the video does not give any evidence of a contravention.  It's only a contravention to stop in a box junction due to stationary vehicles. The video offers no evidence as to the reason for your stop.  It may well have been for pedestrians crossing the road.

Re: Entering and stopping in a box junction
« Reply #4 on: »
post the video not stills from it

The date for payment quoted on the PCN is wrong and that alone can be a winner

https://www.veed.io/view/57e14e57-f49b-46f0-b0c5-c027c2463ab8?sharingWidget=true&panel=share

Re: Entering and stopping in a box junction
« Reply #5 on: »
I've watched the video.  I assume you are the car turning left out of the box? If so the video does not give any evidence of a contravention.  It's only a contravention to stop in a box junction due to stationary vehicles. The video offers no evidence as to the reason for your stop.  It may well have been for pedestrians crossing the road.

That is correct. I've uploaded the video to the link above this comment. Let me know if it doesn't work for anybody with a recommendation of a different upload link.

Thanks guys

Re: Entering and stopping in a box junction
« Reply #6 on: »
Here's the video:



Well it's not a contravention to being with, and the PCN wording is hopelessly flawed. Just send this:

Dear City of Westminster,

I challenge liability for PCN WE50529041 for the following reasons:

1) The video footage does not show any contravention, as the video does not show any stationary vehicles beyond the box markings,
2) The penalty charge notice is hopelessly flawed as the statutory periods are wrong
3) Based on the above, it would be wholly unreasonable for the council to reject this representation.

Should the council reject this representation, I will be pursuing a costs application at the tribunal.

Yours faithfully,

Don't forget to keep a screenshot of the confirmation page.

Do not rely on the post, keep checking the amount due on the council website and let us know when the amount due goes up or down.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Like Like x 1 View List

Re: Entering and stopping in a box junction
« Reply #7 on: »
Wow! A psychological template re how to respond to a bully!  The problem is:  these people dealing with such are totally incompetent and actually believe they are right!
« Last Edit: February 12, 2024, 09:57:46 pm by Hippocrates »
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r
Agree Agree x 1 View List

Re: Entering and stopping in a box junction
« Reply #8 on: »
Here's the video:



Well it's not a contravention to being with, and the PCN wording is hopelessly flawed. Just send this:

Dear City of Westminster,

I challenge liability for PCN WE50529041 for the following reasons:

1) The video footage does not show any contravention, as the video does not show any stationary vehicles beyond the box markings,
2) The penalty charge notice is hopelessly flawed as the statutory periods are wrong
3) Based on the above, it would be wholly unreasonable for the council to reject this representation.

Should the council reject this representation, I will be pursuing a costs application at the tribunal.

Yours faithfully,

Don't forget to keep a screenshot of the confirmation page.

Do not rely on the post, keep checking the amount due on the council website and let us know when the amount due goes up or down.

https://ibb.co/CHRSFSh

The restriction that I am supposed to have ignored was not signed

would this be the correct selection?

Re: Entering and stopping in a box junction
« Reply #9 on: »
Can anyone recommend which option to select in the above options? I feel as if none apply to the appeal..

Re: Entering and stopping in a box junction
« Reply #10 on: »
No idea as it is rubbish.  Why not make a pdf and attach it?
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r
Like Like x 1 View List

Re: Entering and stopping in a box junction
« Reply #11 on: »
The payment period in the PCN is:
The penalty charge mist be paid within the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which the penalty charge notice is served. You must either:

'Pay the penalty charge before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of the notice...



The Act says:
iii)that the penalty charge must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of the notice;

So, the PCN does state what's required. It also gives a form which is not correct. So, OP let's be clear. The statutory periods are wrong is as wrong as the error being described. It's too far reaching. You need to be more focused IMO.

The PCN gives 2 payment periods, one (the first) beginning on the date of service and the second 'beginning on the date of the notice'.

Self-evidently there can only be one, and given that the practical effect of the difference is a minimum of two days and a possible maximum of 4 days means that the PCN fails to meet the standard required by the Act.

Re: Entering and stopping in a box junction
« Reply #12 on: »
Can anyone recommend which option to select in the above options? I feel as if none apply to the appeal..
They're all nonsense, just pick one at random. We'll have to go to the tribunal anyway so it hardly matters.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: Entering and stopping in a box junction
« Reply #13 on: »
Challenge has been accepted.

Much appreciated guys!

Re: Entering and stopping in a box junction
« Reply #14 on: »
Challenge has been accepted.

Much appreciated guys!
That's astonishing, can we see the acceptance letter please?
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order