Author Topic: Enfield - 31J Entering and stopping in a box junction, The Town EN2  (Read 1557 times)

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Would like a sense check please. I’ve already appealed the PCN and have received a notice of rejection, so moving ahead with appealing at tribunal.

I looked at past successful tribunals at this location with similar circumstances to my own and used the relevant ones in my initial appeal to the council. Is there anything I’ve overlooked? Would be grateful for a second pair of eyes please.

Front of PCN

Back of PCN

Date appeal was submitted - 20/05/25

My appeal text (using the maximum character limit allowed):

I wish it be noted there is no option to appeal here on the legal grounds that there was "no contravention of a traffic order or failure to comply with an indication on a sign" - which are grounds on which I am appealing.

This box junction is on the other side of a bend, where a driver approaching cannot reasonably be expected to know whether there is traffic preventing clear passage beforehand, which are the circumstances in this instance. Upon realising the close proximity of the box junction, I continued to roll forward into the space on the other side - as can be seen in the video evidence. I stopped when I believed I was clear of the junction.

Looking out my right mirror, I could not see any road markings for the exit of the junction as they had been worn away. Looking out my left mirror, it appeared my rear tyres were in line with the markings. I would have crept forward more otherwise.

The video evidence also shows me only stopped for 2 seconds, which is legally insignificant.

Notice of rejection page 1

Notice of rejection page 2

One thing extra I will address in my tribunal appeal is a response to the statement in the Notice of Rejection that they consider my approach to the box junction to be from Southbury Road. This is incorrect as can be seen from the video evidence, as I was travelling on London Road and turned right into Southbury Road/The Town where I was immediately met with the box junction. It’s impossible to complete the right turn without crossing the box junction.

Google Streetview of location

Any errors in my appeal, or anything I’ve omitted that could be flagged would be greatly appreciated.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2025, 09:57:10 pm by MachineGunJoe »

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Re: Enfield - 31J Entering and stopping in a box junction, The Town EN2
« Reply #1 on: »
Please also post the video, which is the evidence.

Re: Enfield - 31J Entering and stopping in a box junction, The Town EN2
« Reply #2 on: »
Apart from anything else, the location on the PCN seems wrong. You stopped in the box junction on Southbury Road, not the one on The Town (the smaller one just before).

Re: Enfield - 31J Entering and stopping in a box junction, The Town EN2
« Reply #3 on: »
I looked at the location for which the council are the naming authority and I think it is correct
I help you pro bono (for free). I now ask that a £40 donation is made to the North London Hospice before I take over your case. I have an 85% success rate across 2,000 PCNs but some PCNs can't be beaten and I will tell you if your case looks hopeless before asking you to donate.
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Re: Enfield - 31J Entering and stopping in a box junction, The Town EN2
« Reply #4 on: »
I bow to your vast experience, but am slightly surprised as there is a sign on the wall of Lloyds Bank, adjacent with where the OP stopped, saying Southbury Road.

Re: Enfield - 31J Entering and stopping in a box junction, The Town EN2
« Reply #5 on: »
Please also post the video, which is the evidence.

Apologies - I assumed the evidence would be viewed on the website given on the PCN. I’ve taken a screen recording as there doesn’t appear to be a way for me to download it.

Video evidence



Re: Enfield - 31J Entering and stopping in a box junction, The Town EN2
« Reply #6 on: »
I bow to your vast experience, but am slightly surprised as there is a sign on the wall of Lloyds Bank, adjacent with where the OP stopped, saying Southbury Road.

Thanks for your suggestion, but the location is indeed correct. Bizarrely, the left side of the road is Southbury Road. The right side is The Town. If you look at the street view on the right side, you’ll see the address written on number 36. The box junction technically spans both roads.

Re: Enfield - 31J Entering and stopping in a box junction, The Town EN2
« Reply #7 on: »
that is correct
Quote from: andy_foster
Mick, you are a very, very bad man

Re: Enfield - 31J Entering and stopping in a box junction, The Town EN2
« Reply #8 on: »
How odd! I'm relatively local as well...

By bizarre coincidence, my very first introduction to Pepipoo involved a PCN I received on The Town (the bit before the junction near Barclays).  The experts helped me get off as the loading bay dimensions didn't tally with the traffic order :)

Re: Enfield - 31J Entering and stopping in a box junction, The Town EN2
« Reply #9 on: »
yes bizzare "the town" starts at barclays next to the market place and basically encompasses the properties facing the fountain. with the odd exception of 2 or 3 with "the town" address which are opposite Lloyds bank, which despite having a "southbury road" sign on the wall its address is 1 silver street  :o  :(
Quote from: andy_foster
Mick, you are a very, very bad man

Re: Enfield - 31J Entering and stopping in a box junction, The Town EN2
« Reply #10 on: »
The location given in the PCN is: The Town EN2 Box Junction

The NOR states: 'we would also state that....we consider your approach to the box junction to be from Southbury Road.' Now, they said this to counter your argument about turning right i.e. you weren't because this manoeuvre had already been completed. In which case, why is the location not given as Southbury Road as the contravention must have occurred wholly in this road!

Re: Enfield - 31J Entering and stopping in a box junction, The Town EN2
« Reply #11 on: »
The location given in the PCN is: The Town EN2 Box Junction

The NOR states: 'we would also state that....we consider your approach to the box junction to be from Southbury Road.' Now, they said this to counter your argument about turning right i.e. you weren't because this manoeuvre had already been completed. In which case, why is the location not given as Southbury Road as the contravention must have occurred wholly in this road!

Yes, they seem to have confused themselves there. At tribunal would they take that into account, or it is solely based on the details of the original PCN?

Re: Enfield - 31J Entering and stopping in a box junction, The Town EN2
« Reply #12 on: »
The location given in the PCN is: The Town EN2 Box Junction

The NOR states: 'we would also state that....we consider your approach to the box junction to be from Southbury Road.' Now, they said this to counter your argument about turning right i.e. you weren't because this manoeuvre had already been completed. In which case, why is the location not given as Southbury Road as the contravention must have occurred wholly in this road!
yes they are talking bo!!ox it is impossible to "approach" the box junction from southbury road as the box starts at the beginning of S Rd. you can only approach from The town, Silver street or as the OP did London Road.
I think you will find that very oddly the left side is southbury Rd and the right side The Town. possibly the street name has been placed at the wrong point.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2025, 09:46:06 pm by mickR »
Quote from: andy_foster
Mick, you are a very, very bad man

Re: Enfield - 31J Entering and stopping in a box junction, The Town EN2
« Reply #13 on: »

yes they are talking bo!!ox it is impossible to "approach" the box junction from southbury road as the box starts at the beginning of S Rd. you can only approach from The town, Silver street or as the OP did London Road.
I think you will find that very oddly the left side is southbury Rd and the right side The Town. possibly the street name has been placed at the wrong point.

I will mention this impossibility in my tribunal appeal - but would it count for anything with the adjudicator as it was written in the NOR, not the original PCN?

Re: Enfield - 31J Entering and stopping in a box junction, The Town EN2
« Reply #14 on: »
A gentle bump as it’s been just over a week since I first posted. Would appreciate a sense check that what I’ve written in my first appeal is fine and there’s nothing more to add before I begin the tribunal process. Many thanks