3. Edinburgh city council parking ticket - 23 Parked in a parking place not designated for that class of vehicle
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Edinburgh city council parking ticket - 23 Parked in a parking place not designated for that class of vehicle
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Hello fellow members;

I am in a bit of a trouble and would need some help. So, I was visiting Edinburgh, Scotland from England over the weekend on 25th August and I parked in the city centre where the parking restrictions applied until 6:30pm but I parked there at 16:30 thinking that the restrictions have lapsed! You can call it a silly mistake but it happened as I was with family (and kids) so mush have been tired after long drive that I probably misread the signs and assumed that the restrictions were until 16:30 but in fact it was 6:30pm. Perhaps, should have paid a bit more attention. When I returned after about an hour, I found myself with a penalty charge notice. Do I have any grounds to appeal and if yes, could you please guide me to the right direction, your help will be really appreciated. Also, how easy is it to get it overturned without making it into a court case. The ticket was issued by NSL limited (company address is in Sheffield).

The parking ticket says "23 Parked in a parking place not designated for that class of vehicle". I want to appeal as soon as possible but do not know where to start as money saving experts (MSE) parking forum only helps with private parking fines.

Thank you!
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Re: Edinburgh city council parking ticket - 23 Parked in a parking place not designated for that class of vehicle
« Reply #1 on: »
For meaningful advice please have a read of
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/

and post up here both sides of the unredacted PCN, a GSV link to the location and any Council photos.
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Re: Edinburgh city council parking ticket - 23 Parked in a parking place not designated for that class of vehicle
« Reply #2 on: »
Quote from: John U.K. on September 02, 2024, 11:45:26 am
For meaningful advice please have a read of
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/

and post up here both sides of the unredacted PCN, a GSV link to the location and any Council photos.

thanks for your reply.

The link to the google street view is:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/5TtAkK5TUhZWazXdA

Now upon looking at the GSV, I may have parked in the SOLO M/CS bay but I am pretty sure that I didn't see these wording on the road on the day.

Please see the ticket:

https://imgur.com/a/M7E5jZh

thanks and waiting to hear from seniors and experts.
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Re: Edinburgh city council parking ticket - 23 Parked in a parking place not designated for that class of vehicle
« Reply #3 on: »
There is no sign for the motorcycle bay, only worn-out text on the carriageway. So if I park a motorcycle, do I have to pay or not ? All the carriageway text says is "Solo M/Cs". There is no word "only". It is marked on the carriageway as a separate bay, (see the double-dashed lines perpendicular to the kerb), so must have its own sign; they cannot escape from this requirement.

So submit reps on the basis that there are no signs to draw attention to the M/C bay, only worn-out text on the carriageway. The lack of a sign giving the conditions for this bay means the PCN cannot be enforced. Don't expect them to roll-over and cancel. Post-up your reps and their response when you get it. If you decide to take the matter to the Scottish adjudicators, you'll have to forego the discount option.

Also note that Scotland are still under the 1991 Act, not the later, Traffic Management Act of 2004.
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Re: Edinburgh city council parking ticket - 23 Parked in a parking place not designated for that class of vehicle
« Reply #4 on: »
Quote from: Incandescent on September 02, 2024, 01:39:00 pm
There is no sign for the motorcycle bay, only worn-out text on the carriageway. So if I park a motorcycle, do I have to pay or not ? All the carriageway text says is "Solo M/Cs". There is no word "only". It is marked on the carriageway as a separate bay, (see the double-dashed lines perpendicular to the kerb), so must have its own sign; they cannot escape from this requirement.

So submit reps on the basis that there are no signs to draw attention to the M/C bay, only worn-out text on the carriageway. The lack of a sign giving the conditions for this bay means the PCN cannot be enforced. Don't expect them to roll-over and cancel. Post-up your reps and their response when you get it. If you decide to take the matter to the Scottish adjudicators, you'll have to forego the discount option.

Also note that Scotland are still under the 1991 Act, not the later, Traffic Management Act of 2004.

@Incandescent
re no signs
Google June 2023 shows signs at each end of the bay
https://maps.app.goo.gl/cYEtdDWfqDMQqoZq6
and
https://maps.app.goo.gl/5eEghK3xEp9u3sMK8

@ezycraf - are the signs still there? Hold fire for the moment with Incandescent's suggestion. Were there any Council photos?
« Last Edit: September 02, 2024, 03:28:58 pm by John U.K. »
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Re: Edinburgh city council parking ticket - 23 Parked in a parking place not designated for that class of vehicle
« Reply #5 on: »
Quote from: John U.K. on September 02, 2024, 03:26:37 pm
Quote from: Incandescent on September 02, 2024, 01:39:00 pm
There is no sign for the motorcycle bay, only worn-out text on the carriageway. So if I park a motorcycle, do I have to pay or not ? All the carriageway text says is "Solo M/Cs". There is no word "only". It is marked on the carriageway as a separate bay, (see the double-dashed lines perpendicular to the kerb), so must have its own sign; they cannot escape from this requirement.

So submit reps on the basis that there are no signs to draw attention to the M/C bay, only worn-out text on the carriageway. The lack of a sign giving the conditions for this bay means the PCN cannot be enforced. Don't expect them to roll-over and cancel. Post-up your reps and their response when you get it. If you decide to take the matter to the Scottish adjudicators, you'll have to forego the discount option.

Also note that Scotland are still under the 1991 Act, not the later, Traffic Management Act of 2004.

@Incandescent
re no signs
Google June 2023 shows signs at each end of the bay
https://maps.app.goo.gl/cYEtdDWfqDMQqoZq6
and
https://maps.app.goo.gl/5eEghK3xEp9u3sMK8

@ezycraf - are the signs still there? Hold fire for the moment with Incandescent's suggestion. Were there any Council photos?

yes the signs on the lamp posts were there, however, I am 99% certain that the signs on the road saying solo M/CS were not there unless I missed it as it was raining and they have faded away since 2023 as the google street view shows.
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Re: Edinburgh city council parking ticket - 23 Parked in a parking place not designated for that class of vehicle
« Reply #6 on: »
Lets say even if I was parked in the Solo M/CS bay, I still didn't have any ticket displayed otherwise, I could have argued that I had a valid ticket but was not sure that it was for M/CS etc. However, the markings on the road still remain questionable and I cannot go back and check.
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Re: Edinburgh city council parking ticket - 23 Parked in a parking place not designated for that class of vehicle
« Reply #7 on: »
Quote from: John U.K. on September 02, 2024, 03:26:37 pm
Quote from: Incandescent on September 02, 2024, 01:39:00 pm
There is no sign for the motorcycle bay, only worn-out text on the carriageway. So if I park a motorcycle, do I have to pay or not ? All the carriageway text says is "Solo M/Cs". There is no word "only". It is marked on the carriageway as a separate bay, (see the double-dashed lines perpendicular to the kerb), so must have its own sign; they cannot escape from this requirement.

So submit reps on the basis that there are no signs to draw attention to the M/C bay, only worn-out text on the carriageway. The lack of a sign giving the conditions for this bay means the PCN cannot be enforced. Don't expect them to roll-over and cancel. Post-up your reps and their response when you get it. If you decide to take the matter to the Scottish adjudicators, you'll have to forego the discount option.

Also note that Scotland are still under the 1991 Act, not the later, Traffic Management Act of 2004.

@Incandescent
re no signs
Google June 2023 shows signs at each end of the bay
https://maps.app.goo.gl/cYEtdDWfqDMQqoZq6
and
https://maps.app.goo.gl/5eEghK3xEp9u3sMK8

@ezycraf - are the signs still there? Hold fire for the moment with Incandescent's suggestion. Were there any Council photos?
Indeed there are two signs, but they are adjacent to the other parking bays on each side of the M/C bay, so the M/C bay has no sign. Note the M/C bay is separately delineated with double-dashed lines perpendicular to the carriageway.
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Re: Edinburgh city council parking ticket - 23 Parked in a parking place not designated for that class of vehicle
« Reply #8 on: »
I think we've seen unsigned m/c bays in Edinburgh before. Here it looks like several drivers couldn't see a separate bay and markings and the lack of a sign must surely be a factor even in Scotland.






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Re: Edinburgh city council parking ticket - 23 Parked in a parking place not designated for that class of vehicle
« Reply #9 on: »
Well the sign was there looking at the pics now. I didn't know how to check those but thanks for uploading them. do I stand any chance for an appeal? I have heard that if you lose the appeal then the discounted rate of £50 is also gone??
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Re: Edinburgh city council parking ticket - 23 Parked in a parking place not designated for that class of vehicle
« Reply #10 on: »
Edinburgh appear to have a blanket allowance for motorcycles to park in the marked bays, seemingly without restriction:

https://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/parking-spaces/motorcycles-coaches-buses-caravans-long-large-vehicles

Whether that absolves them from signing the bays other than the road markings I don't know. In this case there appears to be a good argument that the road markings is not clear - doubtless they will see otherwise if you appeal!
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Re: Edinburgh city council parking ticket - 23 Parked in a parking place not designated for that class of vehicle
« Reply #11 on: »
Quote from: ezycraf on September 02, 2024, 05:37:43 pm
Well the sign was there looking at the pics now. I didn't know how to check those but thanks for uploading them. do I stand any chance for an appeal? I have heard that if you lose the appeal then the discounted rate of £50 is also gone??
Going to the adjudicators is always with the full PCN penalty in play. This is designed, (some would say cynically designed), to "persuade" the motorist to pay the discount rather than try his luck on what is really a 'double-or-quits'gamble, but it's not different to you getting a police speeding ticket; pay that at £100 or go to court and risk much more.
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Re: Edinburgh city council parking ticket - 23 Parked in a parking place not designated for that class of vehicle
« Reply #12 on: »
thanks for all your comments. Is it worth just calling them (if it is possible, not sure i need to check if they have a contact number) to see if they can cancel my ticket over the phone after I explain to them about my reasons etc.

So, let's say if I decide to appeal today, does that not mean that the remainder of the 14 days would be frozen after the appeal has been decided? From the comments, it looks like this is not the case?
« Last Edit: September 03, 2024, 09:31:04 am by ezycraf »
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Re: Edinburgh city council parking ticket - 23 Parked in a parking place not designated for that class of vehicle
« Reply #13 on: »
I always say, follow the process, but there's nothing to prevent you phoning them up, just don't expect them to react favourably. So submit representations as per the process as well. You have the basis of an appeal to adjudicators if you decide to fight the PCN, being the lack of a sign for the motorcycle bay. Just say that if there had been a sign, you would have read it and not parked there.
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Re: Edinburgh city council parking ticket - 23 Parked in a parking place not designated for that class of vehicle
« Reply #14 on: »
You just need to make a challenge as below. See what others say first though.

I am challenging the contravention on the grounds that it did not occur as there does not appear to be an upright sign for a different bay at the location, only signs for pay and display parking.
I have reviewed the pictures taking by your CEO and there is no picture of an upright sign showing a bay for a different class of vehicle.
I feel this PCN has been issued in error and look forward to your early confirmation of cancellation.
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  3. Edinburgh city council parking ticket - 23 Parked in a parking place not designated for that class of vehicle