3. ECN Kensington Gardens NSL Parking Machine not working
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ECN Kensington Gardens NSL Parking Machine not working
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Driver tried paying for parking but the machine was stuck at "Please wait" message. Had another person walk by who said another machine was giving the same message when trying to pay by card.
Please see picture of the machine:


Driver concluded machines were likely not working and ended up not paying for parking. Sure enough was greeted by the below ECN on the windshield (inside a yellow sticker) when he came back to the vehicle.
Asks to pay £40 within 2 weeks or £80 if later!
What's the best approach here? Can the non-identification of the driver be used to get out of this like it can be from (PCN) Parking Charge Notices? I never heard of an ECN before and have no prior experience in dealing with this as the keeper. What are my options? Driver genuinely tried paying on the machine but it wasn't working!!

Please see relevant pictures:
ECN Redacted:


BACK:


Venue Signage:
« Last Edit: February 16, 2025, 11:05:38 pm by 8vaibhav »
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Re: ECN Kensington Gardens Parking Machine not working
« Reply #1 on: »
Wow, we haven't seen this sort of thing for a long time !

It's an Excess Charge Notice, (ECN),  and comes under the regulations they cite on the ECN. Best if you go to their suggested website to see what the score is, but normally these things are under the criminal law, not the civil law, but my knowledge of these peculiar regulations is almost non-existent, However, I do wonder at the reference to a "Notice to Owner" on the ECN, because this is a specific statutory document within the de-criminalised legislation for traffic and parking contraventions only.

Anyway, I have had a quick look through the regulations, (what a pain !!), and nowhere in any of them is any reference made to "Notice to Owner". There is nothing at all about submitting representations or any formal structure for their receipt and assessment. So my conclusion is that enforcement is a matter for the magistrates courts but I may be wrong on this, so wait until others have contributed.
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Re: ECN Kensington Gardens NSL Parking Machine not working
« Reply #2 on: »
That is a mess. Notice to Owner on an excess charge that requires the *driver* to pay it?

I seem to remember there was some discussion a long time ago about whether the enforcement of excess charges could be outsourced to companies like NSL in the way penalty charge notices can. Not sure if that came to anything.

The main thing you need to know is that this is not a penalty charge notice. It is an excess charge notice. They are completely different. 99% of what you find online about parking tickets won’t apply to this.

Excess charge notices are very rare and you don’t have the same right to appeal, and you can potentially end up in court on a criminal charge for non-payment.
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Re: ECN Kensington Gardens NSL Parking Machine not working
« Reply #3 on: »
Quote from: lexy on February 17, 2025, 05:54:30 am
That is a mess. Notice to Owner on an excess charge that requires the *driver* to pay it?

It's not a Notice to Owner as of now. The ECN was stuck on the windshield and addresses the driver directly to pay £40.

The back of the ECN states that if the charges aren't paid by the driver within 28 days they "may" issue a Notice to Owner by looking of DVLA details at that point.
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Re: ECN Kensington Gardens Parking Machine not working
« Reply #4 on: »
Quote from: Incandescent on February 16, 2025, 11:18:05 pm
Best if you go to their suggested website to see what the score is,
Many thanks for your reply. I did visit the website, it does have an option to "appeal", though first step was entering all contact details, which I didn't do. What do you mean by "the score"? Please elaborate, I don't think I understood one bit.

Quote from: Incandescent on February 16, 2025, 11:18:05 pm
Anyway, I have had a quick look through the regulations, (what a pain !!), and nowhere in any of them is any reference made to "Notice to Owner". There is nothing at all about submitting representations or any formal structure for their receipt and assessment. So my conclusion is that enforcement is a matter for the magistrates courts but I may be wrong on this, so wait until others have contributed.

Thanks so much for digging these for me. As advised I will wait for others to respond. Thanks again
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Re: ECN Kensington Gardens NSL Parking Machine not working
« Reply #5 on: »
"see what the score is" is the same as this: -
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/know%20the%20score
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Re: ECN Kensington Gardens NSL Parking Machine not working
« Reply #6 on: »
They are following the same two step process as for a usual windscreen parking PCN - it's just that the final appeal stage of London Tribunals is not open to you.

I would politely challenge it with the picture evidence of the machine not responding and the the info about another machine you heard. 
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Re: ECN Kensington Gardens NSL Parking Machine not working
« Reply #7 on: »
The regs themselves are pretty limited(you can peruse fairly quickly by logging on to this website https://www.legislation.gov.uk and inputting Hyde Park and Regents Park in the search field and selecting 'All secondary legislation' in the 'Type' field).

Look at the Explanatory Notes for each set of regs to give you a quick overview.

You won't find anything resembling the minute detail of process we see with decriminalised road traffic contraventions but simply 'a person' who fails to comply with regs, 'excess charge' and 'proceedings'. There must be other regs (not specific to Royal Parks) which deal with the issue of liability (for an excess charge) and how this may be pursued.
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Re: ECN Kensington Gardens NSL Parking Machine not working
« Reply #8 on: »
Quote from: stamfordman on February 17, 2025, 10:36:48 am
They are following the same two step process as for a usual windscreen parking PCN - it's just that the final appeal stage of London Tribunals is not open to you.

I would politely challenge it with the picture evidence of the machine not responding and the the info about another machine you heard.

Many thanks, so should I "politely challenge" as the driver and hope for the best?

The whole "unknown driver" Vs. "known keeper" dynamic of Privately issued Parking Charge Notices is not relevant here at all? With no point of trying to not reveal who the driver was?
(Apologies if this is obvious, I got this wrong for private PCNs so want to be doubly sure)

Many thanks
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Re: ECN Kensington Gardens NSL Parking Machine not working
« Reply #9 on: »
Driver liability is irrelevant here I think as they'll serve an NTO on the keeper regardless.

At what stage of the process did the machine give up the ghost?
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Re: ECN Kensington Gardens NSL Parking Machine not working
« Reply #10 on: »
Quote from: stamfordman on February 17, 2025, 02:13:09 pm
Driver liability is irrelevant here I think as they'll serve an NTO on the keeper regardless.
Are you implying that they are very likely to reject my challenge as the driver and then will eventually send an NTO unless I have paid?

Quote from: stamfordman on February 17, 2025, 02:13:09 pm
At what stage of the process did the machine give up the ghost?
The machine said "Please wait" when I used contactless payment, seemed like some network issues with machine. The other gentleman said exact same issue with another machine he tried.
Who knows coins would have worked but I didn't have any.
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Re: ECN Kensington Gardens NSL Parking Machine not working
« Reply #11 on: »
Not an expert on ECNs but I think the same owner liability applies as per PCNs and the driver identity is irrelevant but I may be reading it wrong:

it shall be conclusively presumed (notwithstanding that that person may not be an individual) that he was the driver of the vehicle at that time and, accordingly, that acts or omissions of the driver of the vehicle at that time were his acts or omissions.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1984/27/part/VIII/crossheading/enforcement-of-excess-parking-charges

So it was at payment stage it failed and no money was taken?
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Re: ECN Kensington Gardens NSL Parking Machine not working
« Reply #12 on: »
Quote from: stamfordman on February 17, 2025, 03:13:29 pm
So it was at payment stage it failed and no money was taken?
Yes, that is right, no money was deducted. Didn't know what else could be done when the issue was clearly not limited to one machine and I didn't have any coins. Just decided to leave as is.
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Re: ECN Kensington Gardens NSL Parking Machine not working
« Reply #13 on: »
@stamfordman, this is the first section of the RTRA you cited:

107 Liability of vehicle owner in respect of excess parking charge.
(1)This section applies where—

(a)an excess charge has been incurred in pursuance of an order under sections 45 and 46 of this Act;

However, Royal Parks parking infringements aren't incurred under ss45 and 46.

But surely there is broader legislation which deals with ECN procedures?
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Re: ECN Kensington Gardens NSL Parking Machine not working
« Reply #14 on: »
@stamfordman @h c Anderson

Thanks for taking interest, it does appear to me appealing and hoping for best is my best bet. I am sure if I wait for NTO then the amount will jump to £80 while I can pay £40 right now and move on.
Will still give appealing a shot, just in case as there doesn't appear to be any driver Identity issues. Any precedents for dysfunctional machines as reasonable excuse to fight these?

Any other strong views to prevent me from appealing right now? (Have another 10+ days TBF)
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