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My mother and I received penalty charge notices at the Redoubt care park (aka Treasure Island car park) on 19/08/23 (during Airbourne where thousands of visitors flock to Eastbourne).

We had arranged an afternoon at Treasure Island soft-play with the children (a place we visit frequently). Upon entering the car park, it was clearly extremely busy. We spotted a family walking to their car and asked if they were going, they advised they had only just got there, but suggested parking opposite them 'as a car had just this minute left and they had plenty of room'. So, myself and my mother (in her car) parked opposite the families' car (see last photo of 'mums car' - VDP 671 with drivers door open), and our 11 year old son went to buy two pay and display tickets from the pay machines for us.

Upon returning to the car (after a really enjoyable couple of hours), we saw we had both received a parking ticket. I immediately thought this was a mistake as we had paid and displayed, but then saw the fine was for 'parking out of bays'. I've lived in Eastbourne all my life, and never have I heard of such a thing. There were cars parked 'out of bay' all over the car park (see photo) - however, they all parked responsibly and considerately, leaving plenty of room for other cars to get our/by.

I drove round the car park and didn't see one mention of having to park in lined bays. I just presumed, like in other car parks, you parked anywhere which wasn't disabled and meant you parked with due care and consideration. The only signs visible were 'have you paid and displayed' (see photo') - which we had (please see attached).

I've since found that the ONE mention of having to park in designated bays was on the pay and display board (where my son bought the tickets) which isn't visible to everyone - it was also presumably blocked from view by another car parked infront of it (also 'out of bay').

I appealed to the council (who took over a month to respond to me) and they rejected my appeal saying:

Your appeal has been denied due to the fact that your vehicle was not parked in one of the designated parking bays.

The purpose of these bays is to ensure sufficient space for vehicles to maneuver within the parking area and to avoid obstructing emergency access, such as fire trucks, in the event of an emergency.

If the car park was full, it is recommended to explore alternative parking options. There are other convenient options available within a short walking distance of the Redoubt car park, including Fisherman's Green and Princes Park, as well as on-street parking (East Sussex County Council).[/b]

I then re-affirmed that my grounds for appeal (for both myself and my mother) saying:

My appeal centres around the lack of signage. There was nothing noted about parking within the bays upon entering the car park. The pay and display board (shown in your photo) is not clearly visible upon entering the car park (see attached), and as it was our son getting the tickets, it isn't something either of us saw.

I have lived in Eastbourne my entire life, as has my mum, and we have never received a ticket. We genuinely didn't consider the fact you would have to park in bays (as you don't in plenty of other council carparks).

To which I received the following reply:


I’m sorry that you are unhappy with my decision but it still stands and I do not uphold you appeal.

The 2 car parks mentioned (Friston Forrest and Cuckmere Haven) are East Sussex County Council sites and looking at the images on line they are completely different in rural locations with unmarked bays. The Redoubt car park is heavily used so we must monitor it closely. As a driver myself who uses this particular car park alot I’ve never seen people park outside the marked bays. With regards to adequate signage it’s a fine line between spoiling the view of a sea front car park and making everyone aware of their parking responsibilities. That is why the penalty charges are listed on the sign between the payment machines.

As for a sign when you come into the car park on the left hand side – as we both use this site frequently we know that very often coming off the main road into the car park is sometimes difficult due to volume of traffic and putting a sign on the left hand side as you enter the car park would encourage people to stop and read this and therefore hold up access to the car park. Also – there would be a H&S issue to this as the entrance to Treasure Island is also on the left so could it obscure the view if a child ran from the verge into the car park.

I’m confident that all of these factors were looked at during the time of the car park creation and discussed fully. I’m sorry that you are disappointed as you say you have never received a ticket before but I still uphold that there is sufficient signage when you purchase your tickets and the bays are clearly laid out – it is the drivers responsibility to be aware of the conditions and parking restrictions within each individual car park as I’m sure they differ for each location.

They've said, if I pay by tomorrow I can pay £27.50 (minus the £2.50 I paid to park), but after that it'll be £60. The same for my mum's ticket too.

We're a hard working family with three young children and it's a lot of money for us. I just feel it's so unfair. I wouldn't have parked there if i'd have known I was doing something wrong, and obviously wouldn't have bought a ticket.
p.s The listed my mum's car as black, but it's navy blue

https://maps.app.goo.gl/gHRMdKqnqba8aWFW8 - Redoubt car park

More photos and appeal responses: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/17UcTzTLMbN8u_5cOdhUzvJ1QjoLYhDb4


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Hello. Thank you for your reply. I've attached the latest appeal rejection email (shorter screenshot), along with the original one.

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Parking in the Lewes District Council and Eastbourne Borough Council areas is divided into two. On-street parking is operated by East Sussex County Council and off-street parking by Lewis and Eastbourne.  It seems to be the usual dozy council dog's breakfast.
https://www.lewes-eastbourne.gov.uk/article/1817/Car-parking

Eastbourne rely on a 2001 Order under the RTRA 1984.

On what material basis would you be disputing the charge and to whom, a magistrate? Any dispute must pertain to the regulatory provisions and you and we haven't seen these.
 
You and your mother parked in the car park blatantly outside of marked bays and wholly on the circulating route, and as for 'We genuinely didn't consider the fact you would have to park in bays (as you don't in plenty of other council carparks', I have no idea what car parks you use but I've never come across a regulated car park where this is the case. If it was then I'm surprised you have never found yourself boxed in.

It says Penalty Charge Notice but makes frequent references to Excess Charge..

..but so what, it's words because the niceties of procedural impropriety do not apply. So what does? Without sight of the order, who knows? IMO, you are behind the curve given where you parked.

It's been hinted at that the council aren't permitted to enforce using these powers, but to whom would this issue be taken and what would be the downside if you did not succeed?

But it's your choice and money at stake.

We need to see all the correspondence you have received from the council, and all the photos they have.

Have you received a notice to owner? If so post up all sides of all pages, just hide your name and address.

The relevant designation order is The Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (County of East Sussex) (Borough of Eastbourne) Designation Order 2008, which does have an exception for off-street car parks, but it doesn't negate the requirement for adequate signage.

Surely a Notice to Owner will not be served because they are following the old criminal regime of the RTRA 1984, and not the Traffic Management Act 2004.

The term notice to owner comes from the old criminal law regime. Much of the Road Traffic Act 1991 was actually copied over from the RTRA 1984.

Before advising anyone to pay, we need to establish if there is a viable defence, that requires sight of the council photos. After all one advantage of the criminal regime is that the council needs to prove its case beyond reasonable doubt, just showing that a contravention occurred on the balance of probabilities is not enough.