3. East Herts - High Street, Ware -Taxi no stopping - Code 45
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East Herts - High Street, Ware -Taxi no stopping - Code 45
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Hi, any help please. I received a PCN on 20/05/23. I have parked there many times before but recently they must have changed the rules. It was free after 6.30pm but it no longer is. I didn’t check but they now have put up a sign underneath the existing one to say it is now a taxi rank. I completely missed this. I was not even there long so it’s very annoying. The observation time on the ticket is a minute but the photos show up to 19:38:58. Should the observation be at least 5 or 10 minutes? Please can anybody help with this.









« Last Edit: August 06, 2023, 02:31:27 pm by cp8759 »
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Re: East Herts - High Street, Ware -Taxi no stopping - Code 45
« Reply #1 on: »
Appealed on 22/05.

Dear East Hertfordshire District Council,

I understand that for alleged on-street contraventions, the enforcement authority is Hertfordshire County Council. It may well be that East Herts Council has entered into an agreement with Herts County Council, but it is a regulatory requirement that the penalty charge notice must state the name of the enforcement authority, see paragraph 1(a) of Schedule 2 to The Civil Enforcement of Road Traffic Contraventions (Approved Devices, Charging Guidelines and General Provisions) (England) Regulations 2022.

Failure to state the name of the enforcement authority on the PCN is a procedural impropriety, on the basis of which the PCN must be cancelled.
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Re: East Herts - High Street, Ware -Taxi no stopping - Code 45
« Reply #2 on: »
I have a response from East Herts Council. It's taken a while and they have sent it by email today. It has been rejected. Any advice?



« Last Edit: August 06, 2023, 02:30:02 pm by cp8759 »
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Re: East Herts - High Street, Ware -Taxi no stopping - Code 45
« Reply #3 on: »
If I continue and wait for the Notice to Owner, would I then have to pay the full price? What is the likelihood that the PCN would be cancelled?
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Re: East Herts - High Street, Ware -Taxi no stopping - Code 45
« Reply #4 on: »
Quote from: scorpion001 on July 04, 2023, 11:26:25 am
If I continue and wait for the Notice to Owner, would I then have to pay the full price? What is the likelihood that the PCN would be cancelled?
If you wait for the Notice to Owner, as long as you challenge it within 14 days, the discount will be re-offered again (to discourage you from appealing to the tribunal).

I would definitely carry on, as their response doesn't really clarify who the enforcement authority is.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: East Herts - High Street, Ware -Taxi no stopping - Code 45
« Reply #5 on: »
Thanks, I'll wait then  :)
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Re: East Herts - High Street, Ware -Taxi no stopping - Code 45
« Reply #6 on: »
I've now received the NTO. They are not offering me the discount and the charge has gone up to £70.00. I thought they were supposed to offer me the discount? I would rather not continue if this is going to increase as I can't afford this. Also, they have got the colour of my vehicle wrong.
Any advice please.







« Last Edit: August 06, 2023, 02:28:53 pm by cp8759 »
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Re: East Herts - High Street, Ware -Taxi no stopping - Code 45
« Reply #7 on: »
Quote from: scorpion001 on August 05, 2023, 12:58:05 pm
I've now received the NTO. They are not offering me the discount and the charge has gone up to £70.00.
By law the Notice to Owner has to demand the full penalty, but as long as they receive a representation by midnight on 15 August we would expect the discount to be reoffered.

Here's a formal representation for you to send:

Dear East Hertfordshire District Council,

I understand that for alleged on-street contraventions, the enforcement authority is Hertfordshire County Council. I have seen no evidence to show that East Herts Council has delegated authority from Herts County Council to enforce on behalf of the county, and in the absence of any appropriate delegation of authority, it seems to me that East Herts Council has no greater ability to enforce this PCN than McDonalds or KFC.

Yours faithfully,

Of course the council will reject, but at that point you'll have the option to appeal to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, which is actually independent.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: East Herts - High Street, Ware -Taxi no stopping - Code 45
« Reply #8 on: »
I don't know if the signage has been changed recently, but it's fairly clear that between certain hours on certain days it is no stopping except taxis. Maybe you've parked there on other days? Monday to Wednesday maybe? It's not a taxi rank per se.
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Bus driving since 1973. My advice, if you have a PSV licence, destroy it when you get to 65 or you'll be forever in demand.
Re: East Herts - High Street, Ware -Taxi no stopping - Code 45
« Reply #9 on: »
Thanks, I will submit the representation. Once it is at the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, is it the full charge?

@roythebus - I think the yellow sign was added later. I have parked there many times and didn't check but they had added the taxi signage later. 
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Re: East Herts - High Street, Ware -Taxi no stopping - Code 45
« Reply #10 on: »
Quote from: scorpion001 on August 06, 2023, 08:13:07 pm
Thanks, I will submit the representation. Once it is at the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, is it the full charge?
Yes, at the TPT it's all or nothing. But you don't need to make a decision until you get the Notice of Rejection, and even then you have 2 / 3 weeks to weigh up your options.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: East Herts - High Street, Ware -Taxi no stopping - Code 45
« Reply #11 on: »
I'd suggest you check the TRO to find out when the taxi plate with times was added. You can normally do that online.
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Bus driving since 1973. My advice, if you have a PSV licence, destroy it when you get to 65 or you'll be forever in demand.
Re: East Herts - High Street, Ware -Taxi no stopping - Code 45
« Reply #12 on: »
Quote from: roythebus on August 06, 2023, 10:29:10 pm
I'd suggest you check the TRO to find out when the taxi plate with times was added. You can normally do that online.
Traffic order seems to be here, can't see any obvious issues with it but I've only had a quick skim. Maybe you can spot something?
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: East Herts - High Street, Ware -Taxi no stopping - Code 45
« Reply #13 on: »
Hi all,

I have received a rejection for my appeal. Please see below. Any advice?







« Last Edit: September 23, 2023, 11:44:06 am by cp8759 »
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Re: East Herts - High Street, Ware -Taxi no stopping - Code 45
« Reply #14 on: »
As the discount has not been reoffered there's nothing to be lost in carrying on, as the penalty can only go down, not up, as long as no deadlines are missed.

Would you like me to represent you at the tribunal?
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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