Author Topic: Early payment offer removed if you make an app[eal.  (Read 411 times)

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Early payment offer removed if you make an app[eal.
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My husband was driving my car and inadvertantly strayed into a new No Pedestrian and Cycle Zone.  The back story is that a flyover near us has been closed for months and due to the horrendous traffic he took a back route to avoid it and didn’t notice a time restriction due to schools traffic had been put into place recently and drove down the road during the one hour restriction.  I appealed to Havering Council and explained it was a new zone, he was stressed trying to get to an appointment on time and didn't notice.  They refused the appeal. 

It is not the appeal refusal I am disputing, it is that we appealed straight away and explained the circumstances but that because we appealed the 14 day offer is not valid.  The fine was £160 or £80 if paid in 14 days.  In the past you could appeal and the 14 day offer was still valid if they said no (when does an appeal ever work?).  The small print has now changed and it said 'Please be aware that if the representation is made the full charge of the Penalty will be payable should your representation be rejected'.  I did not notice that or would not have appealed.  However, surely it is not ethical to put this in place as it frightens people from making an appeal at all?

Would appreciate your thoughts.

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Re: Early payment offer removed if you make an app[eal.
« Reply #2 on: »
Thank you I will do.

Re: Early payment offer removed if you make an app[eal.
« Reply #3 on: »
Okay I think I am in the correct section now.  I so wish I had read the 'Read this first' part before I made the apperal and basically acknowledged he did drive into the zone during the restricted hour. 

I have uploaded to imgpile the first letter I received and am trying to load the back and the second letter but imgpile says it is banned so I'm not sure how to post those.

Here is the link:  https://imgpile.com/p/3S6hUA7

I'll keep trying to add the other pages.

Re: Early payment offer removed if you make an app[eal.
« Reply #4 on: »
There is no legal right to a re-offer of the discount when reps are rejected, even if those reps are submitted within the discount period, although all London councils except venal and rapacious Havering offer it. What there is, is the right to pay the discount at any time within the discount period. So how long after did Havering reject your reps from the end of the discount period ?

However, as they are not offering the discount, it is now a total and absolute NO BRAINER to take them all the way to London Tribunals as the penalty remains the same and there are no additional costs. But for Havering, there are additional costs if the PCN recipient takes them to adjudication. They must prepare an evidence pack and pay the adjudication fee. If you lose you pay the same penalty as Havering are demanding, nothing more. So I suggest you register an appeal at London Tribunals and we'll help you put a case together.

Also please read this and update your thread as necessary:=
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/
« Last Edit: December 12, 2025, 06:57:36 pm by Incandescent »

Re: Early payment offer removed if you make an app[eal.
« Reply #5 on: »
Thank you for your help.  I have started the appeal process.  One of the questions is what are the grounds for appeal?  I have screenshotted it here: https://imgpile.com/p/pcGjqDV

I'm assuming 'the penalty charge exceeded the amount applicable'?

Re: Early payment offer removed if you make an app[eal.
« Reply #6 on: »
OK, so one thing to go on is their statement on the PCN, (please post all pages not just the front page), that if you appeal, the discount is not available. This is a misstatement of the law. A PCN recipient has the right in law to pay at the discounted rate at any time within the discount period, even if representations have been submitted.

Also can you please pos-up your reps and their rejection letter.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2025, 05:29:09 pm by Incandescent »


Re: Early payment offer removed if you make an app[eal.
« Reply #8 on: »
I should also mention, I made the initial appeal within the 14 day period.  I got an email back staing that they have 56 days to get back to me.  Eventually I got a letter stating that as the appeal was written by my husband (he was driving my car so wrote what happened) and not the keeper (me) I had to submit it again.  I did so, sending the exact same appeal but from me, and then they rejected it.

Re: Early payment offer removed if you make an app[eal.
« Reply #9 on: »
As this is a postal PCN, all representations are formal, so there is no discount to offer, as is normally done when rejecting informal challenges against parking PCNs.

There is no statutory guidance for councils, and TfL on the enforcement of PCNs in the London Local Authorities & Transport for London Act 2003 unlike the Statutory Guidance under the Traffic Management Act 2004, but I would suggest that this clause in the said statutory guidance surely applies to any councils enforcing PCNs under the penal lowers they have been granted, even it the applicable Act is not the TMA 2004:-

Quote
An authority has a discretionary power to cancel a PCN at any point throughout the process. It can do this even when an undoubted contravention has occurred if the authority deems it to be appropriate in the circumstances of the case.

Under general principles of public law, authorities have a duty to act fairly and proportionately and are encouraged to exercise discretion sensibly and reasonably and with due regard to the public interest. Failure to act in accordance with the general principles of public law may lead to a claim for a decision to be judicially reviewed.

Enforcement authorities have a duty not to fetter their discretion, so should ensure that PNCs, NtOs, leaflets and any other advice they give do not mislead the public about what they may consider in the way of representations.

They should approach the exercise of discretion objectively and without regard to any financial interest in the penalty or decisions that may have been taken at an earlier stage in proceedings.

Authorities should formulate (with advice from their legal department) and then publish their policies on the exercise of discretion. They should apply these policies flexibly and judge each case on its merits. An enforcement authority should be ready to depart from its policies if the particular circumstances of the case warrant it.
It seems to me that Havering have fettered their discretion by declaring that they will never re-offer discounts when considering representations. I suggest you formulate your reps to London Tribunals along the above lines.

There may also be a "technical" appeal you can add on which is not related to the contravention, but to council mismanagement of the enforcement process. Expertise on this is with our Hippocrates who will see advising on other threads.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2025, 06:34:48 pm by Incandescent »

Re: Early payment offer removed if you make an app[eal.
« Reply #10 on: »
Havering are playing hard ball. I have one of my own which will be taken all the way. I'll take a look later. They like almost a dozen others do not reoffer the discount. Really most unfair.
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

Re: Early payment offer removed if you make an app[eal.
« Reply #11 on: »
Thank you, I will wait to see what Hippocrates says later.  So from what I understand, my recourse should be that the process should not be fettered (ie tied) as it is unfair to offer us a chance to appeal, but really they are not offering the chance to appeal as it is tied to the basis that it puts you off appealing as you lose your discount option - therefore it is fetterd?

Re: Early payment offer removed if you make an app[eal.
« Reply #12 on: »
I have one of my own. But, I need the VRM to see the video please.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2025, 01:39:38 pm by Hippocrates »
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

Re: Early payment offer removed if you make an app[eal.
« Reply #13 on: »
What is the VRM please?

Re: Early payment offer removed if you make an app[eal.
« Reply #14 on: »
What is the VRM please?

Vehicle registration mark (Reg number)