Author Topic: Double Yellow line - Elm Grove - Sutton - Contravention 01 - Appeal denied  (Read 1243 times)

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Hello Everyone,

In mid-June, I received a Penalty Charge Notice (PCN), against which I filed an appeal because I was assisting a friend moving some boxes. However, I received a denial for my appeal last week. Interestingly, the letter refers to a single yellow line, even though I parked on a double yellow line. Also, they observed the car for merely two minutes, asserting that they should have witnessed some activity within this short span.

Given these circumstances, do I stand a chance of winning this case?




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Letter received

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No legal requirement for observation time on yellow lines, although most CEOs do it. Here you got 2 minutes. You could put their letter down as a procedural impropriety as by referring to a single yellow, it is clear they haven't considered your reps. In addition,  I presume your reps emphasised the loading aspect which is allowed on single or double yellow lines which they have also ignored.

Are you prepared to take them to London Tribunals ?
« Last Edit: July 31, 2023, 11:40:14 am by Incandescent »

Yes, it does appear to be a templated response. I'm wondering how much time this entire process will demand from me if I do take them. Is there a specific online resource where I could familiarize myself with the entire procedure?

If it requires significant time and travel on my part, such as consuming my entire morning, I might be more inclined to just pay the fine. However, it is quite unsettling that they didn't seem to review my appeal thoroughly, and I now have to go out of my way to prove my point.





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Is there a specific online resource where I could familiarize myself with the entire procedure?


https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/understanding-enforcement-process/parking-penalty-charge-notice-enforcement-process

Next Stage is Notice to Owner (are your details on your V5C correct in every particular - that's the address its sent to).
Only when formal representations against the NtO are rejected can you appeal to the Tribunal. You can choose a decision on papers or personal (telephone or in person). Never choose papers. Most choose telephone, so you don't have to take the time to go up to London in person.
 Quite often an expert forum member will offer to represent,foc.

Please show us a copy of your representation, or if you don't have one, recreate it from memory as best you can.

Was your friend moving house? How many boxes are we talking about, and what was inside?

Also please post both sides of the PCN in full.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Apologies for the delay, I have not paid the fine since, and I have not received any letter from the council.

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You are the recipient of the PCN, but are you the keeper of the vehicle on the V5 registration certificate ? The Notice to Owner is sent to the keeper as recorded by the DVLA for the vehicle.
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Yes, I'm the keeper as well.

Wait for the NTO they rejected your challenge because unloading was not witnessed by the CEO. There is no legal requirement that it was

Re: Double Yellow line - Elm Grove - Sutton - Contravention 01 - Appeal denied
« Reply #10 on: »
Slight delay with the post but here it is. Please advise

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Re: Double Yellow line - Elm Grove - Sutton - Contravention 01 - Appeal denied
« Reply #11 on: »
Please show us a copy of your representation, or if you don't have one, recreate it from memory as best you can.

Was your friend moving house? How many boxes are we talking about, and what was inside?
Please answer these questions. Also please confirm exactly what route was taken from the car to wherever you were taking these boxes to.

In the meantime I'll request the traffic order.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: Double Yellow line - Elm Grove - Sutton - Contravention 01 - Appeal denied
« Reply #12 on: »
Thank you for getting back to me.

Here is my representation:

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing to formally challenge the Penalty Charge Notice issued to me on 15th June 2023, with reference to PCN number SU75942354. I believe this PCN was unjustly issued, as I was engaged in legitimate loading activities to assist a friend in their move, and my vehicle was parked for only a brief period of approximately 5 minutes.

I understand the importance of enforcing parking regulations for the efficient management of traffic and ensuring the smooth flow of vehicles. However, I would like to provide the following information and reasons to support my challenge:

1. Double yellow lines regulation: I am aware that double yellow lines apply "at any time" and do not require a time plate. However, according to the regulations, loading and unloading activities are permitted on double yellow lines.

2. Exemption for loading/unloading: The regulations explicitly state that vehicles engaged in loading or unloading are exempt from enforcement on double yellow lines during the prescribed hours. As my vehicle was clearly being loaded with boxes and furniture during the time it was parked, I believe I was within the bounds of the exemption.

3. Considerate parking and lack of obstruction: While parked on the double yellow lines, I made sure to position my vehicle in a considerate manner, ensuring it did not obstruct the flow of traffic or interfere with other road users. I aimed to load the items swiftly and efficiently to minimize any potential inconvenience caused to other motorists.

Based on the above-mentioned regulations and exemptions, I kindly request you to reconsider the PCN and cancel the penalty charge. I firmly believe that my actions were in accordance with the loading and unloading provisions on double yellow lines and did not warrant the issuance of a PCN.


Re: Double Yellow line - Elm Grove - Sutton - Contravention 01 - Appeal denied
« Reply #13 on: »
Please show us a copy of your representation, or if you don't have one, recreate it from memory as best you can.

Was your friend moving house? How many boxes are we talking about, and what was inside?
Please answer these questions. Also please confirm exactly what route was taken from the car to wherever you were taking these boxes to.

In the meantime I'll request the traffic order.

We are talking about a 5-minute stop to move boxes from a shop. The boxes contained some merchandise and some boxed furniture. I drew an approximate location for the pick-up.


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Re: Double Yellow line - Elm Grove - Sutton - Contravention 01 - Appeal denied
« Reply #14 on: »
As my vehicle was clearly being loaded with boxes and furniture during the time it was parked, I believe I was within the bounds of the exemption.

But it's not clear that it was being loaded, that's the point.

Once a CEO has observed a vehicle for a reasonable period of time and not observed loading then the burden of proving the exemption falls to the motorist, in this case you.

So what are you required to prove:
As yours was not a commercial activity, that the car was necessary for transporting the goods;

That you were not in contravention for any longer than necessary.

If you don't tell the authority the size, weight, type of items then you invite them to reject your claim. Similarly, IMO you need to tell them why you did not park in the High Street outside or closer to the premises in question. From your description, the premises might be within the 'no vehicles' zone, but why didn't you park elsewhere in the High St where there are DYL but no loading restrictions. At least tell them that you considered this but decided not to because......
« Last Edit: September 11, 2023, 04:38:11 pm by H C Andersen »
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